Black Crunch jams Universal cycle [Cosmology]

Nature Magazine ^ | 23 Decemeber 2002 | PHILIP BALL

[PatrickHenry]

Space might end up dark, thick and boring.

The Universe is not as bouncy as some think, say two physicists. If a Big Crunch follows the Big Bang, it may get stuck that way for ever¹.

A fluid of black holes would bung up space. There would be nothing to drive another Big Bang, and nowhere else to go. The Universe would be, you might say, stuffed.

In a bouncing universe, all the matter currently flying apart slows until it reverses and falls towards a Big Crunch. Some physicists think this could ignite another Big Bang, in an unending sequence of expansion and contraction.

An idea called M-theory suggests how the switch from crunch to bang could happen². The details depend on the shape of space: whether it is infinite and flat, or finite and curved like the surface of a balloon or a doughnut.

Thomas Banks of Rutgers University, New Jersey, and Willy Fischler of the University of Texas at Austin have considered a flat, infinite space in which particles get ever closer and ever denser.

In a space with such features, the smallest kinks in density are amplified into black holes, the densest objects in the Universe. So the whole of space-time would congeal into a very lumpy soup - a black crunch.

"We don't really know what this fluid is made out of," Fischler admits. But he and Banks argue that it may reach a pressure at which it cannot become any denser. At this point, the speed of sound equals the speed of light. Deadlock results.

No theory can cope with a Big Crunch. Because of this, says Fischler, the analysis that he and Banks have performed remains speculative. And a doughnut-shaped Universe could meet a quite different fate, he adds.

References:

1. Banks, T. & Fishler, W. Black Crunch. Preprint http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/0212113, (2002). |Article|
2. Khoury, J., Ovrut, B. A., Seiberg, N., Steinhardt, P. J. & Turok, N. From Big Crunch to Big Bang. Preprint http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/0108187, (2002). |Article|
[See the original article for links in the footnotes]

[MacDorcha]

ill take a stab at the long hand of it for ya.

light is something that travels and is measured in relation to other things. the universe, in the big bang theory, is always expanding, and slowing down as it does so. light, being part of the universe must also be slowing down, as the limits of this plane are reached at lower speeds, since the universe cannot sustain constant expansion (hence, the big crunch theory, which even while some in here support it, neglect that aspect of the arguement) everything in it must slow down before coming together again. get it?

[Sentis]

MacDorcha wrote "so do dreams. you cant prove that you arent a dream to me, even if i was wide awake, you couldnt prove i wasnt sleeping, not definatelynot to me. we can't prove something like "the Matrix" isnt happening right now. its laughable, but hey, you cant prove it. "

Yes in your little world view this is how things work :) But lets step into the real world and work with what we are given we can play Descarte's silly mental games all day long but they aren't getting us anywhere closer to scientific truth. Of course that is the last place you want to go. Truth would be a bitter pill.

[LibWhacker]

You haven't kept up on the latest science news.

Hell, he hasn't kept up with Euclidean geometry. :-)

[MacDorcha]

but by being there, they DO influence us. sub-atomic particles float freely, and are not suspect to gravity, but we are made of atoms, which are made of sub-atomics, and we are held to the planet by gravity.

[Scully]

Hell, he hasn't kept up with Euclidean geometry. :-)

LOL

[MacDorcha]

but, according to the statement, i was asked how to find the center of a flat balloon. a flat anything is two dimensions. a balloon (im assuming by the statement) is a circle. i happen to be in college, and could not have gotten there without passing algebra, geometry, and trigonomitry. you can scoff all you like, but i am simply answering the questions you present on the level you present them.

[Sentis]

MacDorcha wrote "but by being there, they DO influence us. sub-atomic particles float freely, and are not suspect to gravity, but we are made of atoms, which are made of sub-atomics, and we are held to the planet by gravity."

And how does this relate to anything I have said. So what if we interact with subatmoic particles (gravity is a manifestation of the macroverse BTW). When we look at the quantum level we can see things happening like wormholes in space time, and particles that act as if they are both particles and waves, or particles that can be two places at once. These are not part of our Macroscopic world view.

[PatrickHenry]

light, being part of the universe must also be slowing down ...

Dear lurkers: please don't pay any attention to stuff like this.

[Scully]

i happen to be in college

Sometimes, to make full use of your college education, you need to think "outside" the box.

I do not scoff at you...MANY of my students came from public school systems that did not prepare them to actually think and reason, much less make inferences and deductions from observations.

[MacDorcha]

"Of course that is the last place you want to go. Truth would be a bitter pill. "

how do you know what "truth" is? if you truly follow Einsteins theories (Big Bang is a brain child of his) you would also follow that ALL things are realative. that does not only apply to trains and noises, but ideas and yes, the truth.

as for playing "silly mental games" you assume that the truth can be found in one aspect of reality? it seems you need to develope a little. our mental prowess is how we develop any theory. and as i say, a theory isnt "fact" becasuse there is always an "if". you don't solely look into one aspect of being, or you miss the entire picture of being.

[LibWhacker]

. . . you would also follow that ALL things are realative . . .

This is truly sad, MacDorcha. You are not to blame, though. We know the state of secondary education in America. I encourage you to stay in college and take lots of math and science courses. Best wishes!

[PatrickHenry]

if you truly follow Einsteins theories (Big Bang is a brain child of his) you would also follow that ALL things are realative. that does not only apply to trains and noises, but ideas and yes, the truth.

Lurkers! Again, please pay no attention to this stuff.

[Scully]

if you truly follow Einsteins theories (Big Bang is a brain child of his) you would also follow that ALL things are realative. that does not only apply to trains and noises, but ideas and yes, the truth.

I gently suggest you go back and review what Einstein's Theory of Relativity really was concerned with. I'm sure there are many fine websites that address this issue in absorbable form.

[MacDorcha]

"Sometimes, to make full use of your college education, you need to think "outside" the box.

I do not scoff at you...MANY of my students came from public school systems that did not prepare them to actually think and reason, much less make inferences and deductions from observations. "

by debating that there is nothing OUTSIDE the box, you dismiss your own arguement. as for not being "prepared" you shall now know that you have offended me greatly. that insult is the ONE insult i cannot allow you to make. i am not ignorant in any subject i approach with enthusiasm. i haev been thinking along the lines of quantum theorum for almost 13 years. and im only 18. i read stephen hawking when i was 7 years old. you will not insinuate i am ignorant because of my schooling. i can take things into my own hands, and learn beyond what i am taught.

[PatrickHenry]

Gone for the evening, before I get a brain-ache.

[friendly]

I misspoke. The spped of light speeds up as one approaches the Big Bang. The implication of this is that our calculations of the Big Bang having occured 13 billion years ago may be an illusion.

Reference:

"Australian theoretical physicist, Professor Paul Davies, has proposed that one of the so-called “constants” of the universe – the speed of light – has in fact slowed over time, a revelation that will cause a rethink of many of our accepted laws of physics as well as our “understanding” of the beginning of the universe. Davies’ paper, Black holes constrain varying constants, is published in the August 8, 2002 edition of leading science journal, Nature."

[Scully]

Coward ;-)

[MacDorcha]

and all of them have modified it a bit. go to a library, and find an old copy.

[Sentis]

MacDorcha wrote"as for playing "silly mental games" you assume that the truth can be found in one aspect of reality? it seems you need to develope a little. our mental prowess is how we develop any theory. and as i say, a theory isnt "fact" becasuse there is always an "if". you don't solely look into one aspect of being, or you miss the entire picture of being. "

If you are so developed what is your need to play silly Descartes mind games to try and prove your point. If your not afraid to explore the truth you would not have to use this type of fallacious logic. I delve into reason and science not lackluster fantasies about the universe being a dream. I don't know the absolute TRUTH but I do recognize when someone is trying to obfuscate truth with an obvious agenda to promote a mythological system of belief that is little more than mental masturbation.

[Scully]

i can take things into my own hands, and learn beyond what i am taught.

Then surely you can debate Einstein lucidly...unfortunately you have not presented yourself as someone who even understands what is being discussed. I am truly sorry, but your teachers have done you a huge disservice.