Posted on 12/10/2002 6:39:33 AM PST by MissTargets
Senate still trying to approve gun bill
By JOHN McCARTHY The Associated Press
COLUMBUS - A bill to allow Ohioans to carry hidden guns won't pass this year, as far as the House is concerned, but the legislation is proceeding in the Senate, where a vote could take place this week, majority Republicans said Monday.
Work continued Monday to recruit supporters, said Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a suburban Dayton Republican who's chairman of the Senate Civil Justice Committee. An amended version of the bill was expected to be introduced today, he said. ''It would be unfortunate to assume anything as to what the contents are, because the contents to this point have not been decided,'' Jacobson said.
However, talks appeared headed toward getting the State Highway Patrol to drop its opposition to the bill - key in getting Gov. Bob Taft's support.
The patrol's primary concern is whether people would be allowed to carry loaded, concealed weapons within reach in their cars, spokesman Lt. Gary Lewis said.
He said the patrol was hoping the bill would be amended to include language similar to current law, which prohibits having a loaded weapon within reach of a driver or passengers. Unloaded weapons may be carried in cars, but the weapon must be in plain sight.
''Once it's drafted, then we will take a look at it,'' Lewis said.
The bill would require sheriffs to issue permits to Ohioans who pass a criminal background check, including fingerprinting, and successfully complete 12 hours of firearms training.
The House in March passed a version without the fingerprinting and with less restrictive training requirements.
Speaker Larry Householder, a Glenford Republican, on Friday adjourned the House for the year, saying he would not call representatives back even if the Senate made its version less restrictive, because there was little support for the Senate bill among majority Republicans.
Senate President Richard Finan, a suburban Cincinnati Republican, on Monday played down differences in the two versions of the bill.
''We'll pass it in all likelihood, and the speaker could do what he wants,'' Finan said. ''I don't think there's that much difference in the bill as it left the House.''
Householder did not return a telephone call seeking comment.
Some gun-rights advocates prefer to let the bill die and take their chances in the Legislature next year. If the bill does not become law by the end of the current session at the end of the month, proponents would have to start over.
''The Senate has done all in their power to make this legislation useless,'' said Jeff Garvas, president of Ohioans for Concealed Carry.
The issue also is before the Ohio Supreme Court. In April, the 1st Ohio District Court of Appeals upheld a lower court ruling that the law banning hidden guns is unconstitutional because it restricts the right to self-defense. The Supreme Court is allowing the current ban to remain while it considers the case.
Taft, whose signature would be needed for the bill to become law, has said he won't support a bill opposed by law enforcement groups, including the patrol. Taft spokeswoman Mary Anne Sharkey said the governor had achieved one of his goals by promoting negotiations among the parties.
''What the governor has succeeded in doing is to get the patrol and the FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) to the table,'' Sharkey said.
Taft won't take a position until he sees the bill's language, she said. The FOP, Ohio's largest police union, dropped its long-standing opposition to the bill this month.
Much harder to undo something once it's been done than to get concessions from Rhino's when they know they're beaten.
In other words too late to have any use for those of us who don't like the concessions that our rhino governor is making.
By Leigh Allan
e-mail address: leigh_allan@coxohio.com
Dayton Daily News
Drat. Concealed carry got shot down for now, just when I realized it was a boon for my profession.
The panhandling profession, that is.
As Dayton's first duly licensed panhandler, I welcome the efforts to permit Ohioans to carry concealed weapons with open arms. At the ends of which are open palms.
This admittedly represents a change of heart on the issue. I was in Kentucky when that state's legislature passed a concealed-carry law and got to enjoy its aftereffects, which included signs immediately popping up at the Capitol and other state buildings banning guns, and the irony of the leader of Kentucky's concealed-weapons movement pistol-whipping his brother, a fellow gun nut who wore a holster while hitting infield practice for kids. (The origin of gunning it to first?)
Back then, I happened across the Web site of the Gun Defense Clock (now at www.pulpless.com/gunclock), which says that every 13 seconds an American fends off a criminal by using a gun — some 2 1/2 million times a year. I was real impressed until I broke down the numbers a bit.
For example, the figures (extrapolated from a phone survey) would mean that, to keep up our end, Montgomery County alone would have to average 15 cases a day of good guys beating bad guys by showing firepower. According to the Web site, four out of five of those cases involve concealable handguns, and two-thirds become known to the police.
Considering the number of such cases you hear about is more like 15 a decade, the claims seem a tad out of line. But the Gun Defense folks explain that the liberal media don't report such things.
That sounds fair enough, but over decades in broadcast news I read thousands of police reports, and not one cited an ordinary citizen scaring away an evildoer by showing weaponry — which, being one of those conniving media types, I was looking out for so I could cover it up.
So I wasn't really convinced of the great benefits of having a Colt in every pocket and a Derringer in every sock. Until I became a panhandler. Now I see the light.
Dayton's panhandling law has a long list of restrictions, but packing heat isn't one of them. It does say you cannot "threaten anyone," but keeping a pistol in your pants, with maybe just a hint of the handle sticking out — or maybe just sporting a fashionable bandolier — could hardly be considered a threat if the state passes a concealed- weapon law, which is a declaration hidden guns are purely self-defensive.
Either way, I figure donations would soar. In fact, donations should soar even before getting a gun permit.
The proposals appear to have died because House and Senate disputes called for training. Since panhandlers tend toward low incomes, most should qualify for financial aid, as at other institutions of higher learning.
Those that don't get Pell Grants could beg for tuition. At last, beggars would be able to melt the hearts of ultra-conservatives who could hardly reject a plea "to help pay for my gun training."
It'll be win-win for the panhandling biz. But now we'll have to settle for a currently legal form of intimidation through the holiday season:
Concealed fruitcake.
Contact Leigh Allan at 225-7317 or leigh_allan@coxohio.com
[From the Dayton Daily News: 12.10.2002]
Yes 78%
No 16%
Vote at www.springfieldnewssun.com
Not anymore. Now you're an out-in-the-open fruitcake.
Live Coverage of the Ohio Senate and Ohio House of Representatives via an Internet Stream Broadcast from the Statehouse in Columbus, Ohio: http://www.oll.state.oh.us/
Here is what they did to HB274 for Bob Taft:
- The concealed carry bill now makes it illegal to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle ("Firearm must be securely confined")
As if that wasn't enough, here are just a few things that were done to the legislation:
- Requires FFL Dealers to offer to sell trigger locks & to distribute information on safe storage (This violates the Single Subject Rule For Legislation)
- Specifically prohibits carry in stadiums or arenas (Feel good legislation. CCW was already banned in stadiums due to their liqour permits)
- If you've been adjudicated mentally incompetent, you can -never- apply for a permit (This seems like fluff. Existing law deems mentally ill patients under disability. Full recovery results in lost rights?)
- Carrying in any prohibited area is not the same as not having a license. (1st Degree Misdemeanor)
Ohioans For Concealed Carry will have a copy of the legislation online late Tuesday evening or early Wednesday morning.
This is going to be pretty much, dead now.
Just spoke with Senator Scott Oelslager's office, he supports CCW but not if it's junked up with gun control.
I asked if he will vote for the substitute bill coming out of committee, she didn't know yet since several senators are discussing what they intend to do to get it back to the original or possibly kill it.I urge everyone who reads this list to call their Senator. It doesn't take more than two minutes.
Senator Oelslager's office is supposed to call me back and tell me what he intends to do. I'll pass that information along.
* Tell your Senators that we are opposed to Substitute HB274 thanks to the Judiciary Committee's actions.
* Tell them that you are opposed to HB274 because the "concealed carry reform" bill completely ignores all of the aspects of Ohio Revised Code that were ruled unconstitutional in Hamilton County.
* Tell your Senator if they can't pass HB274 as it left the Ohio House, they should NOT vote for Substitute HB274 on the Senate Floor.
Another Fingerhut amendment followed. "Using weapons while intoxicated". The amendment failed. (19 to 12)
Another Fingerhut amendment followed. This issue was initially described as disqualification of ownership of a firearm. The amendment would delay implementation of the legislation until 80% compliance with a potential database of mental illness applicants to be disqualified. The amendment failed. (20 to 11)
(more to follow)
Fingerhut then accosted Taft over safe storage and Taft's failure to pass safe storage legislation. "Like you, I support the Second Amendment" - Eric Fingerhut "Guns can help us at home, properly stored, but on the street? Come on" (paraphrased)
Senator Espy (D-15): "We knew utimately that a bill was to be passed, the stars just needed to be lined up correctly" "I call this bill the macho bill because it includes guns" If someone is carrying a gun openly, you can't arrest them anyway. (paraphrased) "I want you to vote no because concealed carry is just another toy to put in our arsenal"
(more to follow)
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