Confusion over the Vietnam War [Veterans Please Bring Input]

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

My mom is really upset with a certain pundit who I'll keep nameless. It's not my intention to be negative on this. She heard someone say recently that the reason we lost the Vietnam War was because because of 'will to win' or something to that extent.

She and I both believe that the Vietnam War was winnable until we were hamstrung by the UN. When we started off, we helped the populace learn how to defend themselves. We equipped them and trained them. They learned enough that they could fight off anyone who wanted to mess them over, to draft their young men, loot their harvest, etc.

Also, we were forbidden by the UN from crossing borders. Thus, we were sitting ducks while the enemy could hit-and-run and cherry-pick their fights.

But neither my mom nor I were there. So perhaps a lot of people need educating?

To all vets who fought in that and any other war, Thank You from both of us!

FReegards....

[Rockiesrider]

Aurther,
I spent a tour over there as a Marine grunt and came a from that experience with a firm belief that the war was not winable because of the way be chose to fight. I don't mean to say we were not capable fighters we had overwhelming fire power when we martialed it. We never lost a major battle. Our tactics were the best it could be given the limited way American combat units were allowed to fight. In the field the tactic was to send out inforce reconneisence make contact then react in great force. the problem was no one liked to be the bait and if we were too strong the NVA or VC just didn't bite. Toward the end of Vietnam everyone knew we were winding it down so that we could get out and no one in the field wanted to be the last to die for a lost cause. 1969 trough 1970 the era I was there the anti-war movement was beginning to effect the troops. You couldn't help that. One minute your in America going through all its culture changes and four or five months later your in combat in Vietnam. You brought those experiences with you. Once you were there it changed you. You saw your personality change. Not only in the more violent your reactions to events and threats became, but you became more synical in the way you viewed the world in general. I will say that the bonds of brotherhood developed in the field have never been equaled in my life since. The Marines had some great leaders and also its share of boobs. But for the most part we had great unit cohesion. From my point a view, the biggest mistake we made in the military tactics was rotation of our troops. I believe we lost our most effective soldiers due to constant rotation of troops. There again it goes back to the way we chose to fight that war. We were always starting over with inexperienced leaders and soldiers. Your moms right and your right. The Vietnamese weren't capable of beating us, only we were.

[El Gato]

I'll supply the first one, though: Robert Strange McNamara.

I'll add Ramsey Clark and of course the election stealer and dog torturer Lyndon Baines Johnson.

[vortigern]

I had top secret clearance. I was flag-staff communications radioman. I served aboard the USS Enterprise, USS Constellation, USS Bon Homme Richard, USS Ranger, USS Hancock, USS Ticonderoga...and others on Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin between 1964 and 1967. For a fact, in the War Room on all these ships there were many targets that our sorties were forbidden to strike. The war was run by civilians in Washington. I personally operated top secret teletype communications circuits directly connected to Washington and I know this for a fact. The professional military commanders on the scene had their hands tied behind their backs in fighting the war. This is the reason we didn't win...and the reason so many of our finest returned home in body bags.

[El Gato]

Senator Fulbright would later write that the Pentagon had misrepresented the actual event, and that the US had provoked the attack.

Senator Fulbright Billy Jeff's earliest mentor? Hardly a source likely to be thought authoritative in this forum. ;)

[Real Cynic No More]

She and I both believe that the Vietnam War was winnable until we were hamstrung by the UN.

See Dan Rather and Jane Fonda, along with their influence on the sheeple. There's why we lost the will to win.

[muawiyah]

The thread just gets better and better.

I have these bricks. They were custom made for a new house Robert McNamara was building somewhere in the WarshDC area. The contractor wanted to get them off his hands - 2 cents apiece.

He thought they had bad juju.

I made a patio out of them. Sometimes we get to drinking beer and talking over the war, stuff outside the war, and how the Democratic party stabbed the guys who went in the back.

We don't go inside to relieve ourselves. It all goes on the bricks - McNamara's bricks, that could have been on the side of his house!

We should all get together when this guy finally dies and make sure we attend his funeral - two reasons - one to make sure they put a stake through his heart - two to give him an appropriate sendoff.

This man should have no dignity at his funeral. His "loved ones", should such be possible, should have no sympathy, no humane treatment at their moment of grief.

[Eaker]

Bump for later read.

[templar]

IMHO, we were defeated in congress and on campus, not in Viet Nam. The U.N. didn't have anything to do with it. But what do I know ... I was over there, not here.

[Balata]

In general I would agree with you. However, Senator Fulbright's statement was based on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee inquiry into the events of August, 1964. IMO it was his effort to deflect criticism away from Johnson and the Democrats therefore putting the blame on the Pentagon.

[bolthead]

I was an Infantry advisor during 68 - 69. Considering the restrictions under which we were placed, our participation in Vietnam was like playing a football game with rules that do not allow our team to cross the 50 yard line but give our opponent access to the entire field. Under those conditions the best outcome we can hope for is a 0 - 0 tie.

[arly]

That's right ...LBJ and Mcnamara! let politic's dictate are actions, IMHO.

[Ace the Biker]

I was there with the 4th Inf div, I'll never forget when he stopped the bombing. I always thought LBJ was the worst president the country ever had, coarse that was before Clinton.

[Mark]

I left that country a month after Tet('68)-- I lay blame with the French, Kennedy, Johnson/McNamara/J.Fonda - in that order. It seemed that we could have won quickly if politics was not in play.

[oh8eleven]

...the reason we lost the Vietnam War...

We lost? Gheeze, we were winning when I left!
Semper Fi
RVN '67-'68

[borisbob69]

In my lifetime...without a doubt Clinton was the worst...but 2nd place is a toss-up between Carter & LBJ. In my mind Carter may have actaully been worse than LBJ...hard to say for sure.

[ErnBatavia]

dog torturer Lyndon Baines Johnson.

I like that description! Lyndon and his beagle...

[ex-snook]

Congrats for naming Kennedy. One of his accomplishments was 'regime change' in the assassination of Thiem (sp?) which started the whole down spiral. Regime change can be for the worse. Beware of unthoughtout actions by chickenhawks like McNamara.

[Nam Vet]

I was there in 67 and 68 and remember also the halt in the bombing. As I recall, it was a political ploy pulled by LBJ just before the elections. The ARVNs wanted to invade the North also without us, but were not allowed. Carter also stopped arms supplies to the South after we were gone.

We could have also knocked out the dredge in Haiphong Harbor , but were denied that option too. The football game analogy above was quite an accurate description.

Nam Vet

[stumpy]

I remember sitting in a bunker and reading what some annonymous Marine had carved into the beam supporting the roof. " Where the hell is Lee Harvey Oswald when we REALLY NEED HIM?".

[joesnuffy]

When and if Hal Moore writes a book on the subject..
I believe the name Lyndon Johnson will be mentioned alot.