Confusion over the Vietnam War [Veterans Please Bring Input]

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

My mom is really upset with a certain pundit who I'll keep nameless. It's not my intention to be negative on this. She heard someone say recently that the reason we lost the Vietnam War was because because of 'will to win' or something to that extent.

She and I both believe that the Vietnam War was winnable until we were hamstrung by the UN. When we started off, we helped the populace learn how to defend themselves. We equipped them and trained them. They learned enough that they could fight off anyone who wanted to mess them over, to draft their young men, loot their harvest, etc.

Also, we were forbidden by the UN from crossing borders. Thus, we were sitting ducks while the enemy could hit-and-run and cherry-pick their fights.

But neither my mom nor I were there. So perhaps a lot of people need educating?

To all vets who fought in that and any other war, Thank You from both of us!

FReegards....

[cav68]

I was setting on a small LZ called Jeannie up North out from Camp Evans and heard that the bombing had been halted and was in shock for days. All the activity in the area began to increase as he he sat in DC saying how the war would see a turn for the better . Wish I could go back in time and grasp him around the seat of his pants and take him where I was and let him see what a curse he put upon the military of this great country. Damn him, God has a way with his kind of person.

[Billthedrill]

Uh, sorry, musta missed the Vietnamese offshore oil industry thing. How much do they market, anyway?

[Billthedrill]

Never mind, just looked it up. No refineries at all in Vietnam and it wasn't opened to foreign investment until 1998. Dang those inconvenient facts...

[alphadog]

2nd Batt 3rd Marines class of 68-69

We never lost a battle...

[gaspar]

Even to this day I am amazed when I recall Washington's ignorance of Vietnamese history. Lyndon Johnson was scared to death that our bombing of northern Viet Nam would bring the Chinese into the war. That mantra was repeated by numerous stooges who inhabited the Pentagon,the State Department, the CIA and the Viet Nam training centers. American public was led by the nose and did not know any better because they did not understand that the history of Viet Nam was punctuated by wars with China, and the hatred for the Chinese who had most recently caused rampant starvation in the North following World War II, was widespread. There was damned little Communist brotherhood between the parties in Viet Nam and the PRC, and yet the Johnson Government persistently feared a bogeyman that did not exist.

[leadpenny]

Ya know, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't following you.

[leadpenny]

You make some very good points. Everyone should take note that you said nothing about the UN, Oil, Brown and Root, etc. Your comment begins and ends with LBJ - period.

[Man of the Right]

It was our own government, not the UN -- not that they deserve any credit.

[gusopol3]

even so, it was a lot different to lose that chunk of the world in 1975, than it would have been in 1965.

[Publius6961]

Also, we were forbidden by the UN from crossing borders. Thus, we were sitting ducks while the enemy could hit-and-run and cherry-pick their fights.

You almost got it right.
The decision to exchange American lives for politics was an American decision. The UN (then) had little role in that.

When the war was going I supported it. It was winnable sure, but not with civilians running it.
I now believe that the sacrifice of all those American lives was a criminal sacrifice to "politics". Exactly why I am still unable to see.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET

...Historians are now saying that our 10 years of giving all we had to protect Freedom in South Vietnam against a Communist Invasion...

...gave most of the other S.E. Asian Countries a 10 year umbrella of protection in which they grew economically, politically and militarily strong enough to resist any Communist Invasion.

...The only exceptions were Laos and Cambodia, whose leaders Friend of HILLARY RODHAM...
....HO CHI MINH brought to Hanoi so's he could train them in the same convoluted French version of Communism he was indoctrinated in while a college student in the Paris of the 1920's.

Ya done Good, Vietnam Vets...

REAL GOOD.


Signed:..ALOHA RONNIE / Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965 / Landing Zone Falcon / http://www.lzxray.com


NEVER FORGET

[VOA]

The only exceptions were Laos and Cambodia, whose leaders..snip..HO CHI MINH brought
to Hanoi so's he could train them in the same convoluted French version
of Communism he was indoctrinated in while a college student in the Paris of the 1920's.

Honestly, I don't think there is an "de-convoluted" version of Communism out there!

Uncle Ho was no fool though.
I remember reading about how he located his residence about 100 yards (or less) from
the Italian Embassy/Consulate in Hanoi. (Of course US Air Force coordinators
had to keep this in mind.)

I always admire the heroism of Communist leaders...and other tin-horn dictators.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

...Is this why Communist China has claimed some Spratley Islands 900 miles from its shores as their very own...

...even though the Phillipines have called them their own for a long, long time...

...as Communist Vietnam also claims the Spratley Islands as their very own as well...?

[Balata]

Sure, Saddam is a monster. So we applaud Russia selling a nuclear reactor to Iran & continue food contracts to North Korea.

Wrong. The US opposed Russia helping Iran with their nuclear reactors.

Oil is the priority, just like it was the priority in Viet Nam.

Source?

Anybody connecting the dots???

Lets see, you're a banned FReeper formerly known as "goodcarp"? How'd I do?

[Joy Angela]

Keep an eye on the Big Picture, always!

America, we're not so bad after all! :)

[steve50]

We were in there a long time before the Tonkin incident. The CIA was running operations in support of the French.
Disgraceful the way we left the harbors alone to resupply the Cong, almost like we had no intention of ever winning.

[Balata]

1945
An OSS (Office of Strategic Services, forerunner of the CIA) team parachutes into Ho Chi Minh's jungle camp in northern Vietnam and saves Ho Chi Minh who is ill with malaria and other tropical diseases.

August, 1945
Japan surrenders. Ho Chi Minh establishes the Viet Minh, a guerilla army. Bao Dai abdicates after a general uprising led by the Viet Minh.

September, 1945
Seven OSS officers, led by Lieutenant Colonel A. Peter Dewey, land in Saigon to liberate Allied war prisoners, search for missing Americans, and gather intelligence.

September 2, 1945
Ho Chi Minh reads Vietnam's Declaration of Independence and establishes the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi. Vietnam is divided.

September 26, 1945
OSS Lieutenant Dewey killed in Saigon, the first American to be killed in Vietnam. French and Vietminh spokesmen blame each other for his death.

1946
Ho Chi Minh attempts to negotiate the end of colonial rule with the French without success. The French army shells Haiphong harbor in November, killing over 6,000 Vietnamese civilians, and, by December, open war between France and the Viet Minh begins.
.
1950
The U.S., recognizing Boa Dai's regime as legitimate, begins to subsidize the French in Vietnam; the Chinese Communists, having won their civil war in 1949, begin to supply weapons to the Viet Minh.

August 3, 1950
A U.S. Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) of 35 men arrives in Saigon. By the end of the year, the U.S. is bearing half of the cost of France's war effort in Vietnam.

May 7, 1954
The French are defeated at Dien Bien Phu. General Vo Nguyen Giap commands the Vietnamese forces.

June, 1954
The CIA establishes a military mission in Saigon. Bao Dai selects Ngo Dinh Diem as prime minster of his government.

July 20, 1954
The Geneva Conference on Indochina declares a demilitarized zone at the 17th parallel.

October 24, 1954
President Eisenhower pledges support to Diem's government and military forces.

1955
The U.S.-backed Ngo Dinh Diem organizes the Republic of Vietnam as an independent nation; declares himself president.

July 8, 1959
The first American combat deaths in Vietnam occur when Viet Cong attack Bien Hoa billets; two servicemen are killed.

1960
The National Liberation Front (NLF)--called the Viet Cong--is founded in South Vietnam.

1961
The U.S. military buildup in Vietnam begins with combat advisors.

June 16, 1963
A Buddhist monk immolates himself in Saigon. Buddhist demonstrations occurred from May through August.

November 1, 1963
South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem is assassinated.

May 4, 1964
Trade embargo imposed on North Vietnam in response to attacks from the North on South Vietnam.

August 2 and 4, 1964
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident. North Vietnamese torpedo boats attacked the U.S. destroyer Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin. A second attack allegedly occurs on August 4.

August 5, 1964
President Lyndon Johnson asks Congress for a resolution against North Vietnam following the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Congress debates.

August 7, 1964
Congress approves the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which allows the president to take any necessary measures to repel further attacks and to provide military assistance to any South Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) member. Senators Wayne L. Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska cast the only dissenting votes. President Johnson orders the bombing of North Vietnam. For additional information, see New Light on Gulf of Tonkin, McNamara Asks Giap, "What Happened at Tonkin Gulf?", and 30-Year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched the Vietnam War.

March 8-9, 1965
The first American combat troops arrive in Vietnam.