Software vendors urge limits on open source

CNET News.com ^ | 28 November 2002 | CNET

[chilepepper]

The Initiative for Software Choice, which counts Microsoft, Cisco Systems and Intel among its backers, said in comments filed Tuesday that the department should "avoid crafting needless and potentially detrimental IT policy to promote the use" of open-source software. "Open source" means every software developer can view the source code for software, modify it, and use it for free.

The initiative, which launched in May and is chaired by a group called CompTIA, an organization that has close ties to Microsoft, is worried about a recent report that concluded the Defense Department relies on open-source software and recommended its further adoption.

[chilepepper]

We run a rack of 10 blades with mySQL running into a huge bank of RAIDS and really massive data sets the system handles it all very well... FR has moved into the big leagues with alot of tranactions coming in the front door so needs to either pay bucks for more specialized hardware/DB combinations or redistribute their load with more processors (the way we do).

while we are on the subject, what exactly is jim robinson running?

[PatrioticAmerican]

" remind them if they want everything to work properly with their Microsoft product, every article of software they buy must be approved by Microsoft"

Yes, or else the Microsoft goons will come and beat the tar out of you. / sarcasm

Having worked with a number of vendors, not one of them has had Microsoft's blessing. Not one.

I guess the gundreds of products on the shelves of stores like CompUSA all kissed Bill's butt before he allowed them the right to sell their software? Bill only wishes that he had such power. Then again, his cape is in the cleaners.

[TomServo]

cool!

You misunderstood me. My bad. Let me try again.

Check the next Linux distro...(/sarcasm) :-)

[Bush2000]

Oracle is pretty lousy. Sybase much better, SOLID even better, but watch out for IBM's DB/2.

For Windows, I choose SQL Server. For anything else, DB/2.

[mdmathis6]

Adobe software is more expensive than Microsoft's publishing ware...

[mdmathis6]

It was DARPA that got the whole www thing started, Mosaic was the Browser pack that put the multiple processes together so that the TCP/IP networks could be used creatively beyond simple messages and chat bulletin boards.

[chilepepper]

Well, the killer app was Mosaic. WWW per se was invented at CERN of course (not DARPA) in Switzerland by Tim Berniers-Lee, a net savvy version of hypertext which was starting to make the rounds (Apple had one, SUN was starting had CD based manuals with hypertext - the IDEA behind hypertext and WWW can be traced back to the US technology czar of WWII, the wizard Vanevar Bush).

Mosaic came out of NCSA in Illinois strictly from the efforts of Marc Andresson and his friends at NCSA. It was not "government funded" in the sense of being a planned project, rather NCSA allowed Andresson to pursue his idea and turned it into a project later. It was not strictly a DARPA project, however it WAS "open source" as in, if you wanted it, you downloaded the SOURCE and compiled it and weren't charged for it...

[mikenola]

I'd buy one! :-)

[mikenola]

The writing is on the wall for MS. Eventually some bean counter in the Fed Gov will do a comprehensive cost analysis of switching to Open Source, and then it will reach critical mass.

The Department of the Navy is deploying the Navy/Marine Corps Intranet project. Pure MS / Win2k solution. 400,000 seats at $240/month. That's $96 million A MONTH of your tax dollars. Now, imagine slicing off the "microsoft tax" from that amount. 40-50% maybe?

Now expand that thinking to the millions of other desktops throughout the FedGov.

For the vast amount of users, Linux with OpenOffice / Evolution is close-enough.

[chilepepper]

As usual, government figures end up boggling the mind!

where did i leave my asprin?

[no-s]

I said if they want everything to work properly

You reply:Having worked with a number of vendors, not one of them has had Microsoft's blessing. Not one.

No, you miss the point completely, and I would say deliberately. How odd it is for microsoft to suggest I buy another vendors' product if what you say is true...How odd it is for vendors to avail themselves of licenses, testing facilities, partner programs, if what you say is true.

I think you only intend to be disagreeable.It's patently obvious if you use Microsoft software in any kind of integration environment with non-microsoft products, particularly products from competing sources, you will have extra hurdles to labor over. Plus you will have to cautiously vet the Microsoft products to make sure there are no hidden "gotchas" to trip up competitors. If a major customer is affected, they often will amend the troublesome "features". Which is why I always wait for the service pack (well, now I wait for service pack 2, because the feedback cycle is getting longer).

This is not new behavior in the industry, IBM used to manifest many of the same qualities until they shot themselves in the foot too many times, then the shoes fomented a rebellion and got a new head.

[dheretic]

Where did you get these figures? (URL please)

[Bush2000]

Well, the killer app was Mosaic.

Killer? Not. HTML and HTTP are largely derivative of other technologies. Hypertext dates back to the 1950s. SGML dates back to IBM in the 1960s. HTTP is based on FTP. By your standard, Berners-Lee, Andressen, and others should be vilified for not stealing the work of others and not "innovating"...

[gore3000]

So when are you predicting the Great Linux Desktop Takeover?

Three years - at most. The game is up. People are tired of throwing software away and buying new one because MS decides it needs to keep their cash stream going. People see that they have to keep learning new systems every 2-3 years to do this and are tired of it - companies as much as individuals. Add to that the EULA, a self inflicted poison pill administered to try to keep the cash flow increasing and you have disaster for MS.

Linux is getting better and easier to use by leaps and bounds. You do not to have to relearn it either. It also comes with 90% of the stuff people use already installed and ready to go and you do not have to pay extra for it either. A good example of how well Linux is developing is Mozilla which took the code from Netscape and now has a much better product than the AOL backed product and IMHO a better product than IE. It may not load as fast but it sure has a lot fewer virus problems and lots more features.

[gore3000]

Adobe software is more expensive than Microsoft's publishing ware...

...and you can publish pdf documents in Linux without Acrobat.

[Bush2000]

Three years - at most. The game is up. People are tired of throwing software away and buying new one...

Would you care to place a bet? I'd definitely want a piece of that action if that's your prediction. Put your money where your mouth is. There's simply no way and no reason that Dell, Gateway, IBM, and others are going to start putting Linux on all of their desktop computers.

[Bush2000]

...and you can publish pdf documents in Linux without Acrobat.

So what. You can do the same things with doc files and OpenOffice. The point is that the original suggestion of having the government replace its doc files with pdf wouldn't change anything. You'd still have a closed source vendor owning the document format.

[Bush2000]

The Department of the Navy is deploying the Navy/Marine Corps Intranet project. Pure MS / Win2k solution. 400,000 seats at $240/month. That's $96 million A MONTH of your tax dollars. Now, imagine slicing off the "microsoft tax" from that amount. 40-50% maybe?

Here's the problem with your "theory". The federal government's burn rate on our tax dollars is astronomical compared to the cost of the Windows software. In a budget of several trillion dollars, it simply is invisible.

[mdmathis6]

star office..right?

[gore3000]

The point is that the original suggestion of having the government replace its doc files with pdf wouldn't change anything.

No. You can use the open source Open Office and the open source KWord which come with most distributions to write pdf files.