Abortion is wonderful. Abortion is the answer.

November 25, 2002 | me

[HighWheeler]

I have no problem if babies are killed in the first trimester. The next day however, in the second trimester, magic occurs and they should not be aborted. Or was that the third trimester?

Abortion is even a good solution for people who are having responsible sex.

Babies are not very human anyway. They can’t even eat real food.

Mothers should have their babies killed by professionals so it is 100% completely safe for everyone involved.

Children can make too much noise when they are laughing; they should have been aborted when their mothers had the chance.

Fathers and babies don’t deserve rights. Mothers also vote, and are therefore entitled to the exclusive authority to kill other humans at will.

Babies should be killed in the privacy of a public clinic.

A baby is unwanted by everyone if the mother feels it is unwanted.

I tell everyone know that I practice compassion for the less fortunate: so I want to help you rid your womb of that annoying pest.

As long as babies are killed humanely before the parts are sucked out, I’m OK with it.

My job is more important than some baby interfering with my life.

Abortion is the greatest act of selfishness? So What? SOMETHING has to be the greatest act of selfishness.

Whatever you do, don’t let me see the results of the procedure, I might get sick and have awful flashbacks for the rest of my life.

I’m outraged that they kill cute dogs and cats at the pound. Dogs and cats are almost like people.

I’m not going to let some perfectly anonymous stranger adopt my baby.

The baby we aborted 5 years ago would be in kindergarten this year. I’ll bet he would have been the smartest child in class, too. And the most handsome. My brother would have given him a full sized fielder’s glove for his birthday, and he would have loved it so much he would have worn it to bed for a week. Oh well, he would have spilled his cereal milk this morning at the breakfast table, and who can put up with that huge mess?

[X-Servative]

My apologies...

[realpatriot71]

I hate to nit-pick, but if you're going to make an analogy try using a cell that actually has 2n amount of DNA . . . red blood cells have no nucleus

[X-Servative]

So you acknowledge that birthcontrol aborts a pregnancy before it is allowed to begin, halting God's plan?

[don-o]

Great to see the life issue getting some traction here.

When I bemoan the sorry $20 a month I give to help keep this place running, off a period of total stupidity taking over the board, then something good, like this post ratifies the value the FR is.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Here is the challenge.

1)Provide evidence that I have supported masturbation. I haven't. You are using this as a straw man to try and prove a point. Masturbation has nothing to do with my arguments and you know it.

2)Explain how a sperm cell and a zygote are both human beings when a zygote has:

1)A unique DNA structure
2)A natural drive to develop

and a sperm cell does not.

3)Declare once and for all if you believe that abortion kills a human being and if you support legalized abortion.

The facts are simple, you are trying to obscure them. You believe in the murder of children and are trying to (poorly) use rhetorical nonsense to justify it.

You have 24 hours. You may want to talk to someone who can think logically and come back with legitimate response.

[Lysander]

It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than to put out on the troubled sea of thought.
-- John Kenneth Galbraith

Then you agree with me? We should outlaw male masturbation? Good. Finally we agree. I am deeply troubled over it. All that carnage and waste. No more abortions at any stage of development! Now we have a movement going. We do not have to agree on the why, just the way to prevent it- the long arm of the law.

[Dick Bachert]

And most of these women DO suffer here for killing their babies: My pastor used to tell the story of a pharmacist friend who could nearly always tell which of his customers had had an abortion. They had this incredible sadness about them and were emotionally very tight when they came in to get their tranquilizer scrips filled. He was also a strong pro-lifer and on more than one occasion, he gently probed to ask some of those he got to know why they were on these medications for such long periods. Almost without exception, they "broke" right there in the store and wept as they told him that they'd killed their baby. You see, all but the hardest cases KNOW in their heart of hearts (where God lives) that they'd done a terrible thing.

[Lysander]

3)Declare once and for all if you believe that abortion kills a human being and if you support legalized abortion.

p.s.
I do not support abortion. I believe that abortion is the killing of human life. I do not support the murder of any procreative human material at any stage of development. Clear?

We seem to only differ on the definition of human life. Like pro and anti fetal abort debaters it gets down to the definition of human life. You are wrong. I am right and am going to try to get laws passed to enforce my belief on you anyway. I feel as strongly about this as I do killing babies.

My return challenge.
Prove that sperm is not human and is not alive. Simply saying it is haploid is not making it non-human or non-living. It sure is not dog or monkey or cat. It can only develop along a path towards human adulthood that produces more human sperm or eggs. Reproduction is a continuous process. At no stage of development is it not human.

Now you may want to argue that law should not protect it, but that does not make it non-human and a non-reproductive life cycle stage.

[Lysander]

You see, all but the hardest cases KNOW in their heart of hearts (where God lives) that they'd done a terrible thing.

I have discovered the very same thing with teen boys who give in to self-abuse. Almost all of the drug abusers I have known have this problem of masturbation and guilt. It is responsibility gnawing at them. Behavior has consequences!

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

You did not respond to my challenge, only to the third portion of it. But to show that I have legitamacy in my argument, I will respond to your challenge. You have 8 hours remaining to respond to the first two points of the challenge or you forfeit.

My return challenge.
Prove that sperm is not human and is not alive. Simply saying it is haploid is not making it non-human or non-living. It sure is not dog or monkey or cat. It can only develop along a path towards human adulthood that produces more human sperm or eggs. Reproduction is a continuous process. At no stage of development is it not human.

Part one.

Prove that sperm is not human and is not alive.

There are two aspects of this argument, and one is correct. The sperm cell is alive. This a basic truth of biology, that cells live and die. The second aspect is that by this statement you are meaning that the sperm cell is "a human", rather than "human". It is not "a human" while it is a human cell.

Part Two

It can only develop along a path towards human adulthood that produces more human sperm or eggs.

My argument will be based upon cellular production and cellular creation as opposed to cellular development.

The human being produces cells for a variety of reasons. A red blood cell is produced to provide nutrients to other cells, a white blood cell is produced to fight harmful agents in the blood stream, a neuron is produced to transmit electronic impulses in the brain or nervous system, and (in a male) a sperm cell is produced for reproduction.

The sperm cell, thus, is a produced cell. It is alive and it is designed for a specific purpose. It is a human sperm cell, in that is contains genetic material that cannot create an ape, or bird, or clam, but can only create a human.

The sperm cell, however, cannot develop into a human being. It does not have the ability to develop into anything. It is a sperm cell. It will always remain a sperm cell, it can not become anything else.

But, you might question, what if it fertilizes an egg?

Then it ceases to be a sperm cell.

While a sperm cell contains half of the genetic structure of a human, and an egg cell contains half of the genetic structure of a human, individually they are not a human. But when they are combined, both cease to exist and a new human is formed.

This new zygote then begins development. A sperm cell does not begin development, the sperm cell no longer exists.

Thus, as shown, a sperm cell does not develop into a new human, it helps creates a new human. But this creation is not an independant action by the sperm cell, the sperm cell cannot create a new human by itself regardless of condition beyond fertilizing an egg cell. Thus, a sperm cell does not develop into a human adult. It helps create a single cell human.

Summation:

As an independant agent a zygote will continue development as a human being.

As an independant agent a sperm cell cannot develop.

[Lysander]

You lose. Thanks for the try. Sperm needs legal protection, that is why God ordained oral sex a sin and homosexuality a sin. Sex without the intention of reproduction is sin. It is because it wastes the seed which is the location of the soul. It is the soul that makes us human, not the status of development along the continuum of human development. Word warbling does not change the humanity of the substance nor the viability in-the-now. Whether a sperm has united with egg, or whether zygote has bonded with uterus are the same flawed logic. Too bad, you seem sincere in protection of aborted zygote and fetus material but do not fully understand human development. Oh well, half right is better than all wrong. I noticed you did not reply on your masturbation position. It must be too embarrassing. Do you believe masturbation should be outlawed?

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Tick tock. You have around 3 hours to answer the challenge.

[MEGoody]

"Sperm should be allowed to live too. It is human and it is alive."

LOL Whenever I hear this one, my response is always "You'd better take a biology class, hon."

[Saundra Duffy]

Abortion causes breast cancer - www.AbortionBreastCancer.com. Abortion stinks to High Heaven!

[MEGoody]

"Argument is valid with sperm as well as with zygote or adult."

I'm sure you're kidding, right? A sperm is maybe HALF human, but it's not a human life.

[MHGinTN]

All along I've thought you were merely a 'penumbra' of liberalism. After reading your post #128, I realize you are actually a very sick individual. Get help.

[MEGoody]

"Sperm is a phase of human life. Period. It is at one of it's simplest levels. It is unique in itself and has all the potential of developing into a full adult person given the right circumstances. Just like a fetus."

LOL You need a basic biology class, hon.

[MHGinTN]

Ultimately, birth control aborts a pregnancy before it happens. Uh, the term 'birth control' ranges from preventing conception to scissors into the brain of the nearly born. Care to try again?

[MEGoody]

"that is why God ordained oral sex a sin"

Scripture on this please.

[HighWheeler]

It's so interesting that the Democrat-Abortion Party claims to be the party "does it for the children". Yet they only care about themselves, their power, and the money. They don't care a wit about women or children.

In fact they care so little about women, they even protected the Rapist In Chief to stay in power. However, to our fortune, their series of decisions and lies in 1998-1999 have since blown up in their own faces.

The LA vote tomorrow seems to be hinging significantly on abortion.