[Old philosopher]

As an old man who has known these twins for 78 years, I shall miss them very much, but my pity is reserved for those who must live for maany years without their protection.

That's my opinion

[Southack]

Your liberty and freedom haven't been taken, but your common sense and resistance to Leftist propaganda certainly appear to be missing.

[Reagan Man]

The new Homeland Security Department is an effort to make certain aspects of the federal bureaucracy operate in a more efficient and effective manner. It gives the feds unified ability to deter terrorist activities. It doesn't go after law abiding citizens. While its important for all American's to remain vigilant when it comes to anything that the federal government engages in, this reorganization effort doesn't harm the liberty and freedom all American's cherish. There is no evidence that by protecting and defending the American people from acts of terrorism, President Bush and his administration has shown a desire to damage the Constitutional rights of American's.

[sinkspur]

I've noticed that some seniors, like children, are given to hyperbole.

You guys are gonna have to stop using apocalyptic metaphors for every, last, single thing that happens!

FReepers told us the world was going to hell when Clinton wasn't convicted. Then, the war on Bosnia was the end of the world as we know it.

Now, I find out that Liberty and Freedom were lost in a reorganization of several governmental departments into one, something American businesses do every day.

The GOP has a chance to change the direction of the judicial system in America for the next two generations thanks to the last election. Instead of rejoicing at the prospect, all we get from some conservatives is hand-wringing that the world is not conforming to their vision of it.

[Cultural Jihad]

Ho hum. More drama queen antics.

[Cultural Jihad]

You must be one of those 'we're in the awkward stage' loons, respectfully.

[PatrioticAmerican]

Funny how so-called conservatives are willing to spend billions of dollars and allow a goobermint to intrude on our lives to "protect" us from a handful of invaders bent on doing us harm, but lift no finger to the millions crossing our southern border at will.

[u-89]

Liberty and freedom are not words/ideas in current favor. Democracy is all the rage now. As long as we put it to a vote and get a majority it must be good. Whatever it is it must never be measured against liberty or freedom. The fact that you get so much flak for even mentioning them on a conservative site is indicative of how far gone we are. From an analytical point of view it is a fascinating study, from a lover's view the loss is most painful. Ah well, nothing lasts forever.

[nopardons]

You may be old, but you aren't wise. You've been wearing tinfoil, for so long, that lefty propaganda now rings true, to you.

[Indrid Cold]

IMHOP, freedom has been dead since FDR was inaugurated. Liberty has since been coughing up blood... What we're living under now is their ugly stepsister, Permission.

[Liberty Valance]

The rumors of my death have
been greatly exaggerated :o)

Liberty

[L.N. Smithee]

Get over yourself.

[Coto]

"...As an old man who has known these twins for 78 years, I shall miss them very much..."

You've got a few years on me....but I agree with everything you stated !!

ANY idiot that believes the HSA is a 'good thing' for this country...only proves how poor the educational system(s) have fallen over the last few decades.

I reckon that all of the Sheeple, or in this case the 'BushBotz', only have to swallow one more time...as they have bleeted to be the first ones in line for everything else that King George V has mandated.

This time it is the government that is able to 'enforce' a Nationwide Vaccination if only ONE case Small-Pox is verified anywhere the UN looks. Who cares if the vaccination hasn't been fully tested - no one can sue the Potion's Manufacturers if your children die because of their vaccination...
...thanks to the HSA;

Anyone think that they want to purchase a gun...and not let anyone know about it ??
Not any longer......thanks, to the HSA;

Make a mint on the Stock Market and, foolishly, spend all of that cash on a new (insert personal favorite High Ticket Item here:) ?? Good ol' Uncle Sam is a-watchin'
...just to make sure you ain't a terrorist....
Thanks, to the HSA;

Just wait for the next (Plane Crash, Sniper, Global Warming Rally)...and the 'Traffic Stops' that may follow....
If you have nothing to hide....you won't mind if they torture you ...... just to make sure
..Fatherland...err....Homeland Security and all....

Yeah...sure....no one has lost the first 'Liberty' or 'Freedom'.....
...thanks, to the HSA....

BAA-AA-AA-AA-AA-AA-aa-aa-aa-aa..

[rockfish59]

Sign ze papers, old man!

[RWG]

Seniors shouldn't drive or vote.

[u-89]

I am shocked and dismayed at the treatment, the personal treatment that you received here on this thread. Whatever happened to respecting one's elders? Even if these folks disagree with your take they don't have to insult you so.

Funny these same folks would be slobbering all over you like weaselly sycophants if you had posted that as a WWII vet you fought to defend our freedoms. But if you rise to a challenge the current situation to defend liberty with an opinon piece then you are a "senile old fart". And this by folks who cry about our debased culture too.

[jjm2111]

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

I love these threads. Dog Gone had the extreme courtesy to actually read the bill, and from his posts it looks like there's nothing untoward in it. The TIPS plan bit the dust and there is no mention of that stupid TIA data mining plan. (Dog, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

That's not to say I love the government. I do not agree w/ warantless searches and siezures. I think there should be a Constitutional Amendement to protect privacy, esp. in the realm of personal information. But this is an area where both liberals and conservatives agree. We should be making sure people like Poindexter aren't running the show.

But to say there are less freedoms now than in 1776 is ludicrous. Hey, even the assault weapons ban sunsets in two years. Please, paranoid Libertarians, take a chill pill.

[jjm2111]

Oh one more thing:

I think If I see "Neimoller" quoted again or have to read about "liberty vs. security" I might puke.

Who exactly are "they" coming for? And why cannot one have both liberty and security?

[dirtboy]

Today, November 25, 2002, with the signature of George W. Bush creating the Department of Homeland Security, a milestone in the History of our great country was marked by the death of the Twin Pillars of our society, Freedom and Liberty.

Gee, that's funny, I've read most of this bill, and IMO it generates a net INCREASE in privacy, by outlawing national ID cards and TIPS and providing for a Privacy Officer to ensure compliance with federal Privacy Laws.

[dcwusmc]

Nice post and a good obituary. Sadly, I fear you are closer to right than Southack would have us believe.

[Libertina]

My dad just turned 80. The life he tells me about, in youth, job opportunity, open spaces - is much freer compared to mine, and it's getting worse. I lived in Taiwan for 10 years, returning in 2000 just before the election. It had more freedom in some areas. I felt safer, the government stayed out of business - anyone could start one and try for the golden ring, taxes were at 6% under US $4,000 a month and 10% if over. This created a supersonic business climate, which I'd never experienced in the US. OF course, Taiwan had its problems, but the US has tried to combat "problems" with such determination that it has squelched choice , except abortion. Can't cut a tree much less have a business on your property. The government & liberal socialist extremists have their noses in every facet of our lives. I love the US, but this legal terrorism and government assault is frightening. I love my country and want it back.