Judge Moore Ain't Removing Ten Commandments (FOX NEWS)

[Mark Felton]

I am not a practicing Christian. I also married a Jew.

I am a philospher and I am spiritual.

I am a believer in God. I am a defender of Western Civilization.

I am also a realist and rational being that understands that faith in God and a moral underpinning of the 10 Commandments is formula for a succesful civilization.

We are either ruled by God or we are ruled by men. Any true rational, reasoning and thinking libertarian will know this to be true.

Liberties can only be protected with a common set of moral ground rules.

This can also be consistent without imposing a religious creed upon the populace. Behaving morally is not the same as proselytizing.

Using a definition of moral behaviour (10 C's) that has been largely accepted by Western civilization for 1000's of years is a far more reasonable, rational, logical thing to do than to arrogantly attemp to create some new set of "commandments" as you recommended in that link.

Act with reason when you find it.

[Jael]

"When I see this judge and all the people who support his actions push to outlaw work on the Sabbath -- close all malls, restaurants, football games, television programming, etc. -- then I'll believe their sincerity."

You seem to be confused about the display. It's not to establish a religion. It's a historical display regarding the history of the foundation of law in the US.

[MattAMiller]

but the idea that the government should be based on the Commandments contradicts the First Amendment.

But public display of the Ten Commandments does not. And that is the issue.

The public display does not, and no one has said that it does. However, government endorsement of the Ten Commandments does.

[andy_card]

You gotta love this guy

Actually, no I don't. Its one thing for ordinary citizens to defy court orders, its another thing altogether for a State Supreme Court Justice to do so. That sets a despicable precedent against the rule of law, much graver than the actual issue at hand. The Federal Judge needs hold Judge Moore in contempt. If Moore doesn't follow the Judge's order, he should go to prison until such time as he's willing to comply.

[pgyanke]

"OK, so I get it now. Freedom of religion means freedom to be a Christian, all others need not apply.

Thanks for the clarification."

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Do you have any real ideas to add to the discussion or are all of your thoughts so simplistic?

There are over 200 posts here with terrific thoughts on the subject... expand your world.

[XJarhead]

Granted that laws against murder and theft derive for 10C.

As I said previously, I think that's inaccurate. Laws against murder and theft exist in places that have little or no knowledge of the Ten Commandments. They existed before the Ten Commandments were even written. Cain was punished for murdering Abel, right?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Thug.

[Fred Mertz]

If Bush stays silent or doesn't back him, watch for the Christian Right to stay home next election.

The election just ended, now Bush is slamming the 'Christian Right' preachers. I doubt he'll back Moore since the elections just ended.

[XJarhead]

Actually, no I don't. Its one thing for ordinary citizens to defy court orders, its another thing altogether for a State Supreme Court Justice to do so.

Well, I'd agree with you there if this was a final order. But its not -- it's going to be appealed, and he's keeping it there pending appeal. If it becomes final at some point, and he still refuses to remove it, I'd agree.

[andy_card]

Because the Ten Commandments are the very foundation of Western ideas of jurisprudence, and the very basis on which the U.S. Constitution rests?

Huh? How many of the Ten Commandments are articulated in the US Constitution? (Answer: none). Next question: how many of the Ten Commandments are commonly codified in state and federal statutory law? Answer: two and a half (depending on how you count.

If it is "the very basis" for the Constitution, the Framers hid it pretty damn well.

[OPS4]

God made it clear to all who disobeyed the Law that they would be dealt with by Him.

He made it clear that this was the Law his people must live by, and to adopt it as a basis of Civil Law is what has allowed civilization to continue to exist.

Man could never survive by the Law of the Jungle alone.

God intervened, and I pray to thank Him for it.

Ops4 God Bless America!

[FreeTally]

Any semblance of respect for your postings just went out the window.......

If you would like to make a case that we have "rule of law", that is law based upon natural law, and not "Rule of man" which is based upon the whims of a majority or a single appointed person, then I would be more than willing to take this discussion to freepmail.

However, if you wish to make blanket statements and proclaim your lack of respect for my posts, then dont bother.

I have made a simple case with two examples one being "blue laws"(a violation of natural rights) and "gun prohibition in the wild west"(which not only violates natural law, but teh 2nd amendment). These two examples destroys any sucj claim to a "rule of law". I wont even get into slavery......

[breakem]

It is histort which poroves the point. The Roman empire was in existence for a few hundred years prior to becoming Christian. The Romnans developed a court system open to the people. The laws were in effect before anyone there heard of the 10 commandments.

I will not be so prsumptious as to try to give you a history lesson. The information is all around the library and maybe even on the internet, which you sourced.

Another point is that half or more of the commandments are not codified in our laws. So my conclusion is that it was a 50% effort.

[A. Pole]

Is India considered Middle Eastern ?

This is tricky. The "East" is divided into Near East, Middle East and Far East. In the politically correct newspeak Near East got renamed into Middle East (for some weird unfathomable reason) so I guess India is No East.

[nicmarlo]

Its one thing for ordinary citizens to defy court orders, its another thing altogether for a State Supreme Court Justice to do so. That sets a despicable precedent against the rule of law, much graver than the actual issue at hand.

That is absurd. To follow that thought to its logical, should Congress make a law that encourages murder, theft, perjury (which would then not be murder, theft or perjury)...we should then obey those laws? Or perhaps there's a moral law that takes precedence over "man's" law?

[Jael]

X said "Exactly. And yes, we do have laws prohibiting adultery, murder, and theft, and there are Commandments that relate to the underpinnings of those laws. BUT, there are plenty of non-Christian societies that have those same laws. And because those laws exist in the absence of the Ten Commandments, it is incorrect to assume that we have those laws because of the Ten Commandments. We'd have had them anyway even if we weren't Judeo/Christians."

One point you seem to have missed is that "non christian" societies do have SOME of the same laws. But many pagan societies do not.

And many Middle Eastern countries do not have the Christian part of the law. They repay with revenge, not justice. Stoning women for adultery, even if they were raped. Cutting off a hand for stealing. All of that still happens today in those countries.

The Grace, the Christian addition to law is very important, and can't be overlooked.

[andy_card]

But its not -- it's going to be appealed, and he's keeping it there pending appeal.

You're sure of that?

If it becomes final at some point, and he still refuses to remove it, I'd agree.

Of course. But Judge Moore has been quoted as saying he'll never remove it. I take that to mean that his statue would have to be pried from his cold, dead hands.

[pgyanke]

"Did the Commandments influence our laws? Yes. Are our laws based upon them as a whole? Absolutely not."

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No one is suggesting that ALL of our laws come soley from the Ten Commandments. We (not really assuming I speak for EVERYONE) are acknowledging that the Ten Commandments are more than a religious document, they are a historical document--part of our heritage.

We ARE saying the largest embodiment of our laws have their roots in Judeo-Christian values.

The Ten Commandments are part of the inspiration but not the whole kit-n-caboodle.

[cake_crumb]

"OK, so I get it now. Freedom of religion means freedom to be a Christian, all others need not apply."

OOOOOhhhh...bitter. Also totally ignorant. For the past 40 years, freedom of religion has meant freedom to practice any religion, EXCEPT for Christianity. ANY AMERICAN knows that.