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BURNING THE CONSTITUTION: SECRET COURT OKS SPYING ON AMERICANS
CAPITOLBLUE.COM ^ | 11-19-02 | REUTERS

Posted on 11/19/2002 5:54:56 AM PST by KLT

Burning the Constitution
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secret court OKs government spying on Americans
By REUTERS
Nov 19, 2002, 07:32

In a victory for the Bush administration, a secretive appeals court Monday ruled the U.S. government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap terrorism suspects under a law adopted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The ruling was a blow to civil libertarians who say the expanded powers, which allow greater leeway in conducting electronic surveillance and in using information obtained from the wiretaps and searches, jeopardize constitutional rights.

In a 56-page ruling overturning a May opinion by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the three-judge appeals court panel said the Patriot Act gave the government the right to expanded powers.

Sweeping anti-terror legislation, called the USA Patriot Act and signed into law in October last year after the hijacked plane attacks, makes it easier for investigators andprosecutors to share information obtained by surveillance and searches.

In the May ruling, the seven judges that comprise the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court unanimously told the government it had gone too far in interpreting the law to allow broad information sharing.

The Justice Department appealed, saying the order limited the kind of coordination needed to protect national security.

Attorney General John Ashcroft hailed Monday's ruling and said he was immediately implementing new regulations and working to expedite the surveillance process.

"The court of review's action revolutionizes our ability to investigate terrorists and prosecute terrorist acts," he said. "This decision does allow law enforcement officials to learn from intelligence officials and vice versa."

FOURTH AMENDMENT ISSUES

Civil liberties groups, which had urged the appeals court -- comprised of three appeals court judges named by Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist -- to uphold the court's order, slammed the ruling.

"We are deeply disappointed with the decision, which suggests that this special court exists only to rubber-stamp government applications for intrusive surveillance warrants," said Ann Beeson of the American Civil Liberties Union.

The groups had argued that broader government surveillance powers would violate the Fourth Amendment which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures.

But the appeals court said the procedures as required under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act were reasonable.

"We think the procedures and government showings required under FISA, if they do not meet the minimum Fourth Amendment warrant standards, certainly come close," the judges wrote in their ruling, which was partially declassified and published.

"We, therefore, believe firmly ... that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it authorizes are reasonable."

Ashcroft said the government would uphold the Constitution. "We have no desire whatever to, in any way, erode or undermine the constitutional liberties here," he said.

The appeal is the first since the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court and appeals court were created in 1978 to authorize wiretap requests in foreign intelligence investigations. Under the procedures, all hearings and decisions of the courts are conducted in secret.

The appeal hearing was not public, and only the Justice Department's top appellate lawyer, Theodore Olson, presented arguments.

Although the court allowed "friend of the court" briefs to be filed by civil liberties groups and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, since the Justice Department was the only party the ruling can likely not be appealed.

"This is a major Constitutional decision that will affect every American's privacy rights, yet there is no way anyone but the government can automatically appeal this ruling to the Supreme Court," Beeson said.

© Copyright 2002 by Capitol Hill Blue


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
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To: greasyHeart
For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

That coming destruction is the judgement of the Lord when he returns. It has nothing to do with easedropping, giving up liberty for safety... or the FBI. It is a little insulting to a christian when people twist scripture to imply something that it doesn't.

61 posted on 11/19/2002 7:27:53 AM PST by kjam22
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Comment #62 Removed by Moderator

To: KLT
Yes, Imagine being a Pro Life advocate, with them in psoession of this legislation......RICO was bad enough...
63 posted on 11/19/2002 7:29:23 AM PST by hobbes1
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To: KLT; Nogbad; keri; aristeides; okie01; Shermy; Heartlander2
"We think the procedures and government showings required under FISA, if they do not meet the minimum Fourth Amendment warrant standards, certainly come close," the judges wrote in their ruling, which was partially declassified and published.
"We, therefore, believe firmly ... that FISA as amended is constitutional because the surveillances it authorizes are reasonable."

Regardless of one's views on the Patriot Act, this is a peculiar legal ruling. Isn't it required that a law meet the standards of the Constitution, not come close? I would have thought that the court would have mandated an interpretation of the law that would meet what it deemed to be the requirements of the Fourth Amendment.

64 posted on 11/19/2002 7:29:33 AM PST by Mitchell
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To: KLT; AAABEST; christine; Darth Sidious; Fiddlstix; fporretto; Free Vulcan; Liberty Teeth; Loopy; ...
Where are the FR moderates on this thread?

{crickets}

65 posted on 11/19/2002 7:33:18 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: KLT
"...a secretive appeals court..."

"In a 56-page ruling..."

These are quotes from the article. Capital Hill Blue is off-base in at least one respect, and it is this: What in the world is a "secretive appeals court" that issues "a 56-page ruling"? What's so secretive about an appellate court?

Cordially,

66 posted on 11/19/2002 7:33:35 AM PST by Diamond
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To: KLT
oops.

It's REUTERS. Capital Hill Blue just ran it.

I should have known.

Cordially,

67 posted on 11/19/2002 7:36:16 AM PST by Diamond
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To: KLT
I understand this "Secret Court" has been around since 1978, it is nothing new. It was set up to approve wire taps involving national security issues ( an example is wiretapping a Pollard or Robert Hansen) you wouldn't want this stuff where the bad guy's could see it.

So the Clinton's had this.

I think the press is making a big deal about because Ashcroft is using it against the bad guys. If Algore were president, there wouldn't be a peep about this (although we probably would have surendered already).

68 posted on 11/19/2002 7:37:03 AM PST by Leto
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To: KLT

"I love democracy. I love the Republic." (applause) "The power you give me I will lay down when the threat is over." (applause)

69 posted on 11/19/2002 7:40:02 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: kjam22
If I'm in the FBI.... I'd rather ease drop on interesting people instead of the guy who falls asleep in the recliner at 9:30 watching Fox News. OR If I was in the FBI I'd rather read intersting emails instead of a egroup emails about which Large Condenser Studio Microphone has the best sound. But who knows... maybe they'll go after us boring people???

They must learn to control themselves with this new, unappealable law....it gives them sweeping rights over our privacy and lives...

There's no doubt, we need to find the animals that are capable of blowing us up again (and no doubt, they are here)....but that doesn't include us...and all other law abiding Americans.

70 posted on 11/19/2002 7:47:46 AM PST by KLT
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To: KLT
Here it is all spelled out for you.
http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns_frames.html
71 posted on 11/19/2002 7:56:54 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: KLT
It is a long tradition within the US court system that prosocution of an offense can not use "fruit from a tainted tree". In short, this means that evidence collected directly or subsequently from an improper source can not be used.

For example, the police conduct an illegal search of a person's house and find a diary. Within the diary is a detailed account of a crime providing details that only the killer could know. Under our current system, the diary would not be admissible due to the fact that the search itself was illegal. What the Patriot Act, and this ruling does, is remove that protection.

I see both sides of this arguement and beleive that a middle ground could be found. For instance, the evidence collected from a wiretap or other source should not be shared. However, if evidence of a crime was found during the monitoring, the intelligence gathering agency could then contact the FBI (or appropriate LEO) and act as an informant. "We have observed the following...." kind of stuff.

This would allow the LEO to then go and obtain a warrent and legally establish their own monitoring. Yes it is a bit of a delay and yes it would be double monitoring, but I'm willing to pay thoses costs in order to have a SOLID legal case and not trample on the rights of the people.

Just a thought
72 posted on 11/19/2002 7:59:18 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Sir Gawain
Hmmmmmmm. On this thread.....it's hard to say...but you can pick them out..
73 posted on 11/19/2002 7:59:36 AM PST by KLT
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To: KLT
I can't understand why they are allowing hundreds of thousands of foreign workers into this country each year if they are so concerned with "Homeland Security". To me, there isn't a whole lot of security when that many LEGAL aliens flood the country each year. And that is IF they are even LEGAL, as there is RAMPANT fraud involved in the work visa system.

Immigration fraud 'out of control' - General Accounting Office slams INS for rampant problems

From the above link:

The General Accounting Office has concluded that immigration fraud is rampant, even helping to open the door for terrorism, and that the Immigration and Naturalization Service has no idea how to get it under control.

In a report released Feb. 15, GAO concluded that immigration benefit fraud is "pervasive and significant and will increase as smugglers and other criminal enterprises use fraud as another means of bringing illegal aliens, including criminal aliens, into the country."

And a bit more info on the subject..

INS, GAO say immigration benefit fraud is pervasive

Perspectives: on U.S. GAO’S report on immigration fraud

74 posted on 11/19/2002 8:01:03 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: Sir Gawain
"I love democracy. I love the Republic." (applause) "The power you give me I will lay down when the threat is over." (applause)

You forgot the </sarcasm> tag

75 posted on 11/19/2002 8:05:08 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: KLT
One other little problem I see with all of this is that we are not taking steps to guard against any hostile actions by China.

China Eyes U.S. Ports

Pentagon study finds China preparing for war with U.S

76 posted on 11/19/2002 8:07:40 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: AAABEST
The War on Terror looks more like a War on American citizens, or a War on American freedoms.

Yes.

"Human beings will generally exercise power when they can get it, and they will exercise it most undoubtedly in popular governments under pretense of public safety." -- Daniel Webster

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

We do indeed live in interesting times.


77 posted on 11/19/2002 8:12:19 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: FormerLurker
I agree with you FL on every point you've made....while we are busy with Iraq...China is sharpening its claws....
78 posted on 11/19/2002 8:12:28 AM PST by KLT
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To: KLT
Only terrorists need fear from this legislation. In this war on terrorism which is really a Jihad on the west - our civil liberties can be used as a weapon against us. This act helps the Government to defend our nation and way of Ulife. I trust Ashcroft, not the ACLU.
79 posted on 11/19/2002 8:12:43 AM PST by eleni121
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To: FormerLurker
I can't understand why they are allowing hundreds of thousands of foreign workers into this country each year if they are so concerned with "Homeland Security". To me, there isn't a whole lot of security when that many LEGAL aliens flood the country each year. And that is IF they are even LEGAL, as there is RAMPANT fraud involved in the work visa system.

YES you are right....this is completely wrong...we are loaded with illegals and foreigners with criminal backgrounds...remember the Clintooon/Gore Citizenship USA Program....What a SCAM!

80 posted on 11/19/2002 8:32:44 AM PST by KLT
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