GM Quality Gap Real, or Perceived?

Bloomberg.com ^ | 11/18/2002 | Doron Levin

[GeneD]

Southfield, Michigan, Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- If you want to anger a General Motors Corp. executive these days, just offer the opinion that the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are the highest-quality midsize sedans.

You may sustain a vigorous tongue-lashing for failing to acknowledge that the latest J.D. Power and Associates survey of initial quality ranks General Motors's Buick Century ahead of the Camry and the Accord.

[americanMel]

Will do!

Thanks again for the link!

[phroebe]

Nothing cruises the Interstate quite as smoothly as the Chevy Caprice. Quiet, plenty of power, lots of room. However, the warranty is 60,000 miles, and that's exactly where things start falling off the vehicle.

Hmm... mine's got almost 80,000 and no problems yet. Then again, it's an '86. What year's yours?

[SBprone]

Since I started driving in 1970 I've owned a succession of mostly Japanese cars, every one of which was a good reliable set of wheels for its time. The last one was a 1992 Lexus ES300 that we sold in 97. Since 97 we've bought only Fords: two Expeditions and a 150 Supercab. Except for the Lexus every one of these vehicles was a well-proven product by the time I bought it.

It takes time to build a reputation. And it will take time for me to forget about a friend's 2001 Chevy Suburban that had so many serious problems that the dealer was forced to take it back under California's Lemon Law. The word on the Chevy light trucks is that they have wonderful engines and lousy brakes compared with the Fords. One thing I can see with my own eyes is that GM seats and interior trim still look like the same cheap junk they were pushing in the 1970s.

Here's my point. My impressions of GM products may be mistaken and out of date, but GM will have to make some brilliant products for at least another five years before I consider taking a chance on one.

[Woahhs]

I don't care whether they build the things in Communist China...and I'm a Union member!

Product loyalty is a two was street, and with something as expensive is a car/truck it's more like a marriage. I don't get married to someone who thinks going from screwing the football team to screwing a tag team earns bragging rights.

[tacticalogic]

In my opinion, Ford makes a far superior truck. Better performing, better looking, better quality.

Unless it's one of the Ranger pickups, in which case it's Mazda making a superior truck.

[RightWhale]

'87. Actually most moving parts have been replaced with real parts rather than the pot metal parts that came on the car, so I figure the car will last, unfortunately, forever.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Heh, what you said. Initial quality in defects per hundred cars is a nice metric but doesn't go very far. This doesn't capture the ultra-cheap, non-sealed freeze plugs that can and will pop out at any random high-rpm moment, nor does it count the head gaskets that rust out at 75k miles, each on its own giving the owner a nice, fat repair bill...nor does it count the bushings going out at 40k miles, right after the warranty expires that also leads to fat, happy mechanics.

Ah, hell, this isn't GM's fault, I'm here to brash Chrysler...grumble...

[HamiltonJay]

THis is my personal oppinion of what GM needs to due to turn itself around:

1) Retire Pontiac, you cannot shake the image of shoddy and crap as long as you have a division of vehicle that will put plastic flairs and spoilers on anything, and produces the ugliest vehicle ever. Just retire this entire brand, if need be, repackage some of the more successful models under a nother brand, but get rid of it.

2) Long term reliability - GM, vehicles are a LONG TERM investment, your products don't last.

3) Build a 4 banger worth a damn! Just because you offer a 6 banger, doesn't mean everyone wants one! Why is it you guys can't build a 4 banger worth a damn?

4) Update the saturn line... of course after you create a 4 banger worth a damn. These designs are more worn than madonnas crotch.

5)Caddy division needs to make more appealing vehicles.. this trend has been happening in a few models... needs to continue.. no younger person who has the money is going to choose a caddy over a beamer until you get the styling right (this area they are improving).

6) Entry level rebirth, your entry level cars are sadly old, worn and more often than not crap, when compared to other alternatives. Everyone knows that if you get the customer young you will, provided you don't screw them over, keep them for life generally... Honda Civic runs circles around anything you guys have out there, and is affordable... Cavalier, Sunfire, etc... just look like jokes when side by side. Not to mention styling is outdated as well, been 7 years since style update.

8) Quality quality quality... and reliability. Reliability.. realiability. With Car costs going higher and higher, realiability has to be number one.

I have personally been burned by GM's sub par vehicles, when against my better judgement I let the wife pick out a GM vehicle. Its' transmission died at 70k... and it was taken care of, damn thing was in the shop all the time... worst vehicle I EVER owned. Until GM stops producing crap, they are going to have a hard time turning around... of course they are a company that tolerates and even promotes mediocrity at all levels, so its not overly suprising.


Those are my bigger thoughts.

[ColdSteelTalon]

I have a Pontiac Grand Prix with 160,000 miles on it. It has been most reliable. And should I buy a car I am sure i will be buying another GM product

[RightOnline]

I've owned my share of imports, but for my money, NO one builds a big-block engine like Chevy. NO one.

I've owned my share of those, including my current '93 Chevy Suburban with over 140,000 miles and still purring like a kitten.

Could GM use some "help" on cosmetics? Yes. Interior parts that don't break or fall off after 100k miles? Yes. Definitely. Still, I have loved this Suburban and would buy another one in a New York minute.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Regaining share will require closing the quality perception gap, though it won't be easy. The automaker must convince buyers it's no longer building bland, shoddy-looking ``airport rental'' cars.

LOL, that's exactly how I picture them. I wish them luck, Ford and Chrysler as well, but its too late for me. I've owned & driven Ford, GM, and now Chrysler and all they are good for is keeping mechanics rich. The GM models that I have had the pleasure of renting in the past years have left me completely unimpressed...the best I can say is that some of them are fun to drive but the build quality, interior quality, and/or ergonomics is usually lacking. I don't want to hear a bone-jarring thud when I close the door.

I hope they can succeed in what they are trying to do, but initial quality is only the start. My next vehicles will be Toyota and Lexus, and there's pretty much nothing Detroit can do about it at this point.

[MrB]

You've hit it on the head about the union labor.
What do unions do?
They price labor above the market price.
They force companies to keep mediocre workers.
They fight for the least work/quality for the most money.

When you have an organization that does its best to enforce mediocrity, what kind of product are you going to end up with?

[js1138]

I'm here to bash Chrysler...grumble...

I managed to drive a Volare and two minivans 140k+ without expensive repairs. Of course the AC went at 90,000 and was not repaired, and they became pretty grumpy after 120,000. With the exception of the Volare, which rusted out immediately, I think the vans could have made it to 150,000 in good shape with a few thousand in repairs and more frequent oil changes. That would have averaged 2-3 cents a mile for repairs over the life of the car. Not bad, in my opinion.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

My 2 Intrepids are packing on the miles, too, but its costing me too many appendages to keep it that way ;) I've got my '94 up to 151k miles and I think it can go for another 50-100k, and my '97 is up to 75k. The '97 has been far more problematic and I have to spend $1500 this week just to be able to keep it going...if I refused to have it fixed, it would have to be junked.

My friend bought his '95 Maxima AT 75k miles and has had 2 things go wrong, a transmission replacement covered under warranty and an axle repair. I wish I could be so lucky, therefore my strategy has shifted to giving myself better odds. Toyota & Lexus for the next 2.

[oust the louse]

I own both.I have an ES300/2000 and Toyota Highlander/2001.I probably shouldn't buy another car for 10 years +.I had a Grand Prix(if I had to I'd buy another) and a Jeep Cherokee Laredo(engine noise way too loud inside the car).Both so quiet and 210/220 HP repectively.I KNOW these will last a long time.

[Hodar]

You owned a Monza, eh?

Yeah, I bought a Monza. I hope Chevy made nearly 100% on that $10,000 car; because they will NEVER see another dime from me again. I like my Lexus and Toyota pickup. Good vehicles, haven't needed to go to the shop for anything beyond oil changes and scheduled maintenance. Why would I go back to a company that abused me, by selling a known inferior vehicle.

[Lassiter]

How much different are Mazda's trucks from Rangers? I see them on the road sometimes and I keep thinking they're Rangers until I get right up next to them.

[tacticalogic]

Mechanically, they are identical. Rangers are Mazdas with Ford trim.

[Las Vegas Dave]

BAD PAINT JOBS!

My '87 Pontiac 6000 developed blisters on the trunk, one at a time, after a few months of this, a HAND print developed, of course GM painted it, then the paint came off of the roof and hood, they offered a free paint job (for $300), I declined, (did I mention the front rotors warping-frequentely ?)

I test drove a new '01 Grand Prix demo, damn rotors thumping as I braked, said to the salesman, no thank you!,

[RichardW]

I owned a 75 Monza and that was one bad car. That Vega engine was a piece of work. The body was a joke, just a pile of junk throughout.

I think most of the later cars from nearly all of the manufacturers are actually quite good. I've got a '99 Mystique and a '96 Ranger 4x4 and all I ever do is to change the oil and put in fuel.