BATF Moves to Block Importation of 'Obsolete' US Military Guns

The New York Times Company | November 16, 2002 | JEFF GERTH and RICHARD W. STEVENSON

[12.7x99mm]

I get my ap from this dude
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm
he has 30cal and 50cal its surlpus pulled ammo and it shoots just fine
I havent been on the site for awhile cause I by in bulk :-)

[glc1173@aol.com]

"Garand rifles, which can be easily converted into automatic weapons." (New York Slimes)

Sure - an eight-shot machine gun? Has anyone ever even heard of a Garand made full-auto?

Bush has to totally clean out BATF - and repeal the Klintonista mindset there. Now that both houses of Congress are GOP, he doesn't have any more excuses about not doing so. If he doesn't, then he doesn't deserve gun owners' votes in 2004.

Scandals of antigun politicians - from coast to coast!

[Fiddlstix]

Bang

[SSN558]

The so called Danish Garands and other WWII weapons are already being sold here and have been for quite some time. An 8 pound, 44 inch long rifle is just not very likely to be carried by dope dealers and bank robbers. They can not be converted to full auto.

[stylin_geek]

Independent thought is not encouraged when one is working for the government. If it was, a lot of people would have quit a long time ago. :)

[m1911]

I don't think there's a paragraph in this that doesn't have at least one lie.

[Cacique]

2nd amendment bump

[M1911A1]

In light of the fact that the M-1 Carbine and the Garand can only be cleaned from the muzzle end (at least with GI cleaning rods) and the level of care our "allies" give to small arms, it is a safe bet that most of these guns will not be good shooters. Imagine a rifle that has been in the hands of second-line militia for decades, with the crown of the muzzle being hammered by 100 grit cleaning rods for countless hours by bored conscripts. Add the effects of occasional shooting, corrosive .30-06 ammo and the way those soft carbine barrels bend and you get the picture.

Here is a tip for browsing Garands and Carbines: Obtain a 150 to 200 grain .308 caliber bullet (bullet only, not the cartridge!) and ask for permission to drop the bullet nose end first down the barrel. Most of the time, on a surplus Garand or Carbine, the bullet will go down past the cannelure. Expect poor shooting , even if the barrel has been scrubbed bright.

The good news is that newly manufactured barrels are available, and even the cheap ones are at least the equal of the original wartime product. Most of these surplus rifles end up as wallhangers, but if you want a good shooter, you will probably have to get a new tube.

As is so often the case, the BATF is suffering from a case of rectal-cranial inversion here. The net effect of granting permission to sell these rifles will be to drop the price for the average consumer, who is after a little history. They have better things to worry about than surplus weapons.

[CapandBall]

I shake my head ruefully...

[MileHi]

I shake my head ruefully...

Me too...

[jjm2111]

Bump

[gnarledmaw]

"Has anyone ever even heard of a Garand made full-auto?"

Heard of, yes, though I dont know if theres any truth to it. According to a relative who was in the army, end of Korea time frame, some guys would make modifications to the weapon that would cause it to shoot full auto that apparently only worked if the weapon was held level or pointed down. Tipping the muzzle upward supposedly, for whatever reason, caused the mod not to work and the weapon wouldnt fire at all.

And then of course it depends on how far down the mod path we are still going to consider something a garand. The first m-14s were modified garands and in some places those m-14 were all modified into nation specific full auto select weapons like in Italy with the BM-58(folding stock full auto m-14 carbine).

[gnarledmaw]

Ping. Do you suppose that this is in someway connected to the M-14 rumor?

[joesnuffy]

What I love is that on one hand ...daily I hear the news of terrorists with nuke...chemicals...biologicals..

Terrorists infilitrating all of Americas instiutions..islamic sniper attacks..on private unarmed citizens..random assasinations purely for the sake of inducing terror and a malaise of helplessness..

Open borders...WMD...impending smallpox epdemic...terrorists to attack schoolchildren and hospitals...

Refusal to go after muslims as this would make them feel bad...and they might sue..

and what is the answer to this...disarming citizens...especially those nasty war hero types...you know the one...the white ones...who love guns..and read gun magazines and who have
GASP...bibles....

So lets go after more rifles..that may be used by these US combat vets or their familes in self defense...or even war relics...from the WW2 era

Meanwhile terrorists are overunning the country..while the govt heros we are to look to to save us from them...are handing out what amounts to parking tickets to old ladies...
And we are supposed to trust what these people tell us about Homeland Security????

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Blood of Tyrants]

Not quite. They send it FedEx.

[Blood of Tyrants]

An obvious garbage hit piece designed to indoctrinate the sheeple with propaganda rather than educate them with the truth. The truth is that it is collectors (like me) who will snatch these up, not criminals.

Does anyone here find it disgraceful that an importer can bring in swastika marked K98 Mausers, but can't bring back an M1 Garand?

Oh, yes.

[Redbob]

Did anyone else go to "Machine Gun Dave's" webpage to look at that "1928 Colt commercial water-cooled tripod listed for $1,250?"

That's $1250 JUST for a tripod - NOT a machinegun!
See it at
http://www.sarcoinc.com/dp6.htm

Talk about misinformation...

[No.6]

Remember how Reagan wanted to fold BATF into the Secret Service?

The Homeland Security bill which passed the House (HR 5710) takes BATF away from Treasury and brings it under the Justice Dept. Not as far as I'd like to see (would have preferred disbanding BATF and simply absorbing its 'functions' into Justice) but an important step.

Go look it up on Thomas, sections 1111-1115.

[ZULU]

We do NOT need ATF. The FBI, if they do their job properly, and the local police are perfectly adequate for enforcing the laws of the land.

The ATF, rather than the CIA or the FBI, represents the feared federal police force, so opposed by the founding fathers. The function of a law-enforcement agency is to enforce the laws, not make them. ATF has become a vocal advocate of the gun control movement and, as such, has become an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment, and, by extension, the Constitution.

This anti-Constitutional government agency should be dissolved, its rank and file absorbed into the FBI and CIA, and its policy making spokepersons given the boot and kicked off the public payroll.

ABOLISH THE ATF!!!

[coloradan]

I noticed that. They also aren't a .gov site, but a .com site. However, they were set up by an act of Congress. (And, they used to use the U.S. mail.)