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'Railfans' Complain of Police Scrutiny in Terror Era
The Washington Post ^

Posted on 11/15/2002 10:25:35 AM PST by BurbankKarl

Edited on 11/15/2002 11:21:54 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

On a balmy Sunday afternoon late last month, Richard Whitenight did what he often does on his days off: He went to a busy railroad junction in Fort Worth to watch the trains roll by.

But as he sat making notes about passing freight trains, two police cruisers approached. Over the next five hours, Whitenight -- who works for the police department in nearby Arlington, Tex. -- identified himself to the officers. Then he identified himself to the officers' supervisor, then a detective from a terrorism task force, then the FBI. They seized his trainspotter's notebook and grilled him about every mark and note in it. They searched his car and took photos of it, inside and out. Finally, he had to sign a form agreeing never to return to the location known as Tower 55.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 11/15/2002 10:25:35 AM PST by BurbankKarl
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To: BurbankKarl
Papers Citizen!

You are free to consume in government approved shopping areas or go home!

Freedom is slavery!
Ignorance is truth!
Long live the Republic!

2 posted on 11/15/2002 10:30:03 AM PST by DAnconia55
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So how do we balance this?
It seems fundamental that this guy was harassed for no reason at all.

And that's a violation of his liberty.

Yet if Osama bin Laden's little brother decides to take out a passenger train with a bunch of people on it, or a nuke-carrying military train, the possibility exists that it could have been prevented by tactics such as this.

It makes me sick to watch my country die.

3 posted on 11/15/2002 10:32:22 AM PST by Izzy Dunne
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To: Izzy Dunne
Don't be so dramatic.
4 posted on 11/15/2002 10:42:19 AM PST by Big Dan
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To: BurbankKarl
Finally, he had to sign a form agreeing never to return to the location known as Tower 55.

HAD to? That signature means nothing. The JBT's cannot bar you from a public or private place just because they don't like it. I would have a judge slap an injunction on them in a heartbeat for harassment.

5 posted on 11/15/2002 10:45:46 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: BurbankKarl; Admin Moderator
Excerpts ONLY from the Post.
6 posted on 11/15/2002 10:47:17 AM PST by JennysCool
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To: BurbankKarl
As a model railroading hobbyist (N, HO and G), I do, on occasion, stop to get some shots of various trains and I used to take the kids, when they were younger, up to the local station to see the local model railroad club's layout and hopefully catch a train or two pass by.

With all that being said, and although it sounds like a cliche that has become too old, too quickly, ....we live in a different world now. And like the passing of the steam era, we'll just have to get used to it.

7 posted on 11/15/2002 10:47:24 AM PST by Hatteras
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: All
Why do you guys assume that "Tower 55" isn't on private property? Every State in the Union makes trespass upon railroad property a misdemeanor.
9 posted on 11/15/2002 11:38:21 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky
Why do you guys assume that "Tower 55" isn't on private property? Every State in the Union makes trespass upon railroad property a misdemeanor.

Because that might get in way of yelling "POLICE STATE!", or crying because your "country is dying". You've got to get with the program, son. Jumping to wild conclusions is a way of life here at FR.

10 posted on 11/15/2002 11:53:06 AM PST by Cable225
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To: MRAR15Guy56
Dang, you kiss your mother with that mouth?

The fact is that there are lunatics and madmen out there and we can't tell who's who until it's too late. If I had a pool and I let all the neighbors in to swim anytime of the day or night and all of a sudden I start discovering dookies floating around, I'm going to close the gates and not let anyone in until I can figure out who the mad pooper is. If that means you can't swim for a while, too bad. Go find another pool.

If you want to help me find the pooper than have at it. You might get to go swimming alot sooner too. But don't whine and cry at me, I'm not the one that's causing the infringement on your "freedom".

11 posted on 11/15/2002 11:56:51 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: Hatteras
Only difference is we haven't closed the gate.
12 posted on 11/15/2002 12:13:52 PM PST by KEVLAR
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To: BurbankKarl
Another excerpt from the the article:

Jim Satterwhite of Greenville, Tex., president of Coastline Rail Services, was out photographing trains last weekend when his wife had a visit from police. It seems a Kansas City Southern Railway locomotive crew had reported his tag number. Shortly after the police visit, his wife received a call from a railroad official. Satterwhite said in an interview that as a 20-year Air Force veteran who now works in the railroad industry, he understands the need for safety and security. But "when do we become prisoners in our own homes?" he asked.

Indeed! And his name along with Whitenight's will be entered in the all encompassing Pentagon's DARPA database that has been discussed in the past few days. Pretty soon it will be suspicious to sit on our front porch and watch passers by. We are losing our freedoms in the name of "security", and very few seem to give a damn.

13 posted on 11/15/2002 5:41:09 PM PST by CedarDave
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To: Hatteras
Well, that's you and your opinion and you're entitled to it. But for me- better to have my throat cut by a terrorist as a free man than to live safe as a slave in my own country. Screw safety and security. Life has zero value without freedom. If America is no longer a free country then freedom will exist nowhere.

Freedom equals danger and insecurity. There is only a small percentage of people who are actually willing to fight for freedom or to exist in a state of freedom. The rest would willingly trade it in for security. The rest want government oversight into their lives- handrails at Niagra Falls, Social Security, subsidized pharmaceuticals- that sort of thing. It's always been that way. The ones that would trade it in now would have been the ones who were unwilling to oppose the British during the Revolution.

No big thing- human nature. Most people just want the safety of the herd- no matter where the herd is headed. I guess that's instinct and I don't begrudge any man for responding to his instincts in that manner. Freedom's not for everyone and I can appreciate this. I kind of like Patrick Henry myself though- he summed it up best.

14 posted on 11/15/2002 6:16:43 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: BurbankKarl
So the LEOs have driven off probably the best,free guard the trains could have.
15 posted on 11/15/2002 6:30:43 PM PST by Free Trapper
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To: Prodigal Son
We're talking about a temporary measure here. So you and Patrick Henry will have to suffer for a year or two before you can go back to taking close-ups of trains. The cops are damned if they do and damned if they don't and if they don't you'll start bitching and moaning when someone blows up an Amtrak train killing a hundred or so passengers. "Why didn't they stop him, the LEOs are worthless, they should have known trains were a target...This is an outrage!... We can only depend on ourselves...PASS THE AMMO!"

For your consideration, I am not a more government, less freedom type of guy so you can save your holier-than-thou patriotism, but when terrorists are blowing up our country, I don't mind making a few sacrifices. If that means I can't hangout at a RR crossing snapping pictures and taking notes, then I'll use my zoom lense from a distance. If you are assuming that this will lead to random pat-downs in any public area, than yes, of course I would not stand for that and you don't have to either. Simply ask for a cause, a warrant and your attorney. Experience has taught me (the hard way I might add) that it doesn't matter if you are completely innocent, when the sheriff slaps his billy club in his palm and says to move along, you move along. 9 times out of 10 that LEO is just doing his job and doesn't need a self-rightous punk ruining a good day. But you go ahead and spit in his eye and tell him to stick his club where the sun don't shine. Although, I got to warn you, the results might not be what you bargained for tough guy.

You might think you're a "true patriot" but you sound more like one of Rodney King's South Central L.A. buddies. NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!....GIVE ME TRAIN PICTURES OR GIVE ME DEATH!

spare me...

16 posted on 11/15/2002 7:33:02 PM PST by Hatteras
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To: Free Trapper
So the LEOs have driven off probably the best,free guard the trains could have.

Exactly! Train enthusiasts love trains more than the corporations who own them.

17 posted on 11/15/2002 8:23:28 PM PST by secretagent
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