You Are a Suspect

NY TIMES via Drudge ^ | william safire

[DAnconia55]

You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

ASHINGTON — If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:
Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade your receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

[Joe Hadenuf]

#434 Outstanding post. The glaring truth.

[grist for the mill]

I'm with you Deb, no alternative solution has been posted to eliminate the terror problem. We are simply going through a period of adjustment. I wonder how those that lost someone at WTC would feel about data gathering as a logical step? That's all it is and since the government isn't good at data gathering, I don't think that anyone has anything to worry about.

[TigersEye]

Ask yourself what Clinton (Bill) would have done with these capabilities and what Clinton (Hillary) might do with them before being so trusting.

That's a very good question since the Homeland Security Bill was drafted by the Clintoon Administration.

[Free the USA]

What do open borders have to do with my post or are immigrants the only problem you see and no other issues are important to you?

[dirtboy]

That's all it is and since the government isn't good at data gathering, I don't think that anyone has anything to worry about.

Oh, puh-leeze. The government can be quite good at data gathering - when they have a name and go out looking for information on that person. Nothing to worry about? How quickly you forget Hillary and her cache of 900+ FBI files.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" OK so now you're comparing Dubya with Hitler.

Look buddy, Gore lost, get over it."

No, I was not comparing Bush with Hitler, that's a totally b.s. accusation right out of the Algore playbook. I voted for W and sent my hard earned overtaxed dollars to his campaign so you can shut up on that one. That statement was for Illbay and the rest of the whiney ilk who think that the Federal Government can do no wrong. If you're in that camp and the shoe fits, then enjoy wearing it. If Algore was in charge we wouldn't even have this dicussion because FR would be banned for contributing to "hate speech".

[TigersEye]

This database proposal is the EXACT SAME methodology as that used by the gun grabbers. In response to a problem, be it terrorism or the DC sniper, propose a law or program that will do NOTHING to fix the problem but will place the beginnings of a Constitutional restriction on the populace. Then, when that program does not achieve the desired results, claim we have to do more of it...

Yup. Same as the WOD's too. Meet the new bogeyman,...Terrorism. The catch-all excuse for every budget need and every encroachment on liberty. It even neatly ties together civilian disarmament and the WOD's.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" I'm with you Deb, no alternative solution has been posted to eliminate the terror problem. We are simply going through a period of adjustment. I wonder how those that lost someone at WTC would feel about data gathering as a logical step? That's all it is and since the government isn't good at data gathering, I don't think that anyone has anything to worry about."

There is not one person who has posted an objection to "data gathering". We oppose data mining. If you are a suspect in a crime, especially terrorism, it is, for now, the law that an investigator goes before a judge and requests a warrant for wiretaps or searches weather for physical or electronic evidence. Once you surrender that right, you are giving a blank check for police abuse. Don't think it will happen? Ask the "alleged" terrorist who is an American Citizen sitting in a naval brig in Virginia Beach, VA. He might be scum but he has the right to all Constitutional protections. If there is a fair trial then yes, he should be taken out and shot. I would advocate the same for you or anyone else who is an American citizen.

[IMHO]

Sorry, I'm not suggesting any kind of flame here. I just get tired of the "I have nothing to hide so cavity search me" type of logic from the sheeplee.

I know its rather callous, but Al Queda has not affected me personnally yet, but the Fed Gov has extensively. People don't seem to realize that every extension of power is next to useless in fighting these guys, but will turn our country into an impoverished third-world dictatorship, with all of the death squads and political prisoners that go along with it.

[KDD]

However, that in and of itself does NOT prove or even indicate that Bush had prior knowledge about 9/11 and allowed it to happen in order to pass the Patriot Act - just as Clinton's exploitation of the OKC bombing does not prove that he allowed it to happen.

Of course not.

But it is a truism that no matter what man you elect, you get government. I don't always see the man because my eye is on the beast behind him.

[Free the USA]

My original response was written for another debate, the often repeated quote about those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither. Re-read it from that perspective and you will find it expresses no support for this particular proposal.

[griffin]

Doom and gloom. LOL. Try vigilant.

[TigersEye]

I don't know, but I trust the guys and one gal in charge. They know.

Bzzzzzt!

"While cognitive functioning is not a player requirement it is against the rules to post direct proof of a flatline brain function. Thanks for playing, MetaAlpha, parting gifts are not included, user mileage may vary, warranty cards have been discarded, player is responsible for their own transportation home. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out."

[griffin]

I'm not going to show you EXACTLY where we are not following the Constitution because it is evident across the board. If you want to disregard it in mass that is your choice and my pointing out specific incidents of it will not sway you.

AND I don't have the time for you today. Sorry.

[griffin]

"THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT function of the Federal government is to protect this nation against all enemies foreign or domestic.

If you are trying to say that the Federal government needs to be too weak to be able to do that, then you're in no-man's land. There is not a single legal precedent I can think of that supports your claim."

Typical liberal tactic. Bait and switch. Start to discuss the primary function of the constitution and when someone addresses you defective reasoning you tweak the question to..."Oh...what is the primary purpose of the federal government". Pitiful. And my input is irrelevant? Ha.

You'd have more friends on DU. May I suggest you switch?

[grist for the mill]

So, what is your solution?

[grist for the mill]

[i]How quickly you forget Hillary and her cache of 900+ FBI files[/i]

That hillary thing was not good, but she paid a price for that "effort."

Now, what freedom was it that you lost?

[dirtboy]

That hillary thing was not good, but she paid a price for that "effort."

Yeah, right. Colson went to jail for one FBI file, Hillary is now a Senator with aspirations to the Presidency. That was one of the most feeble attempts at downplaying an issue that I have seen in some time.

Now, what freedom was it that you lost?

I notice you are shifting from rights to freedoms. We'll equate the two here. I will issue the caveat that I am not yet convinced that this bill or others passed with it provide for warrantless searches of financial data, as some people claim - I'm gonna print out the whole thing and read it over the weekend to see for myself. However, since Deb and others have voiced no objections to such searches, I will say what rights such an action would violate:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It's really amazing how something so sacred as the 4th Amendment can be disregarded by the likes of you, Deb and Howlin like a used Kleenex.

[md2576]

You besmirch every person who works for this nation and even those who have died defending it. You are despicable. I am glad you will be banned for your treasonous activities.

Your personal attack on my patriotism is unfounded. I did not say that was fact or it was how I personally felt. I merely posted an excerpt from the Montgomery Herald to point example as to how government could possibly escalate terror to the point of stripping peoples constitutional rights and at the same time avoid any question of authority with pom pom waving and accusations of pseudo-patriotism.

[Terriergal]

ping!