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You Are a Suspect
NY TIMES via Drudge ^ | william safire

Posted on 11/13/2002 7:47:59 PM PST by DAnconia55

You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

ASHINGTON — If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:
Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade your receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; billofrights; flames; fourthamendment; homeland; privacylist; safire; terrorwar
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To: Dick Bachert
As you read this, ask yourself this question: If America -- the IDEA, not the geograpghical place -- becomes indistinguishable from Cuba, China, North Korea, etc., -- haven't the bad guys accomplished their goal?

I read where one of those gomers said it was not his goal to make us like Cuba, China or North Korea. It was his goal to kill us, but I see your point too.

101 posted on 11/14/2002 7:29:57 AM PST by Mark17
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To: Illbay

"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the arguement of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves."
~~William Pitt



102 posted on 11/14/2002 7:38:21 AM PST by Mark Felton
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To: Mark17
If the bad guys DO succeed in converting us into a total despotism, our new, improved state apparatus will most likely begin to jail and kill many of the rest of us.

And how delicious would THAT be for the baddies, watching US do their dirtywork for them while they watch from a safe distance?

103 posted on 11/14/2002 7:42:51 AM PST by Dick Bachert
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To: Lokibob; per loin; A. Pole
I read the article and all I can say is who cares about privacy anymore? Let them collect all the data they want and if it happens to harm someone or a group of people, tough luck.

What can you tell me about this MetaAlpha? I couldn't tell if his post was sarcastic or not and so I went to his profile for a clue. Found he has been banned.

104 posted on 11/14/2002 7:49:56 AM PST by iconoclast
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To: JoeMomma
Bush is much more trustworthy than his predecessor, but how do we know we can trust Bush's successors?

Good Lord folks, I can't believe half the pap I read on these threads. Our great dream for a nation was based on principles not personalities. The giant patriot George Wahington tried to underline that. Do you all know ANYTHING about our history?

Do you actually sit around and worry about the "next President" while our liberties crumble around us?

Have any of you noticed that this current regime of enlightened saints apparently has no qualms about shredding the Constitution but still has done nothing about arming pilots or anything serious on the INS debacle?

105 posted on 11/14/2002 8:10:07 AM PST by iconoclast
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To: Anchoragite
This ain't no joke.

I'm especially not laughin after I read about the Poindexter connection to this.

106 posted on 11/14/2002 8:17:11 AM PST by iconoclast
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To: DAnconia55
Nothing we're doing looks like we are after the bad guys. It all looks like the government is after the citizens.

Quote of the day. Very insightful.

107 posted on 11/14/2002 8:20:59 AM PST by AUgrad
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To: per loin
I find it shortsighted to give powers to the government, based on who occupies an office at the moment.

You're way too kind!

108 posted on 11/14/2002 8:37:32 AM PST by iconoclast
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To: DAnconia55
"WE ARE AT WAR"

It's strange--and, quite frankly, disturbing--how many "conservatives" believe that those four little words justify any and every action taken by the government. Just close your eyes and chant this phrase ten times while simultaneously patting your head and rubbing your stomach and *POOF!* Everything the government does is suddenly okay. Once you accept that, then you won't be bothered by the fact that no "war" has been declared since 1941.

109 posted on 11/14/2002 8:39:30 AM PST by sheltonmac
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To: Illbay
What war is that?
110 posted on 11/14/2002 8:43:20 AM PST by fifteendogs
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To: dirtboy
While it may not specifically mention credit cards transactions, it authorizes, in very vague terms, just about anything they want. And it does specifically mention the creation of the database and mining technologies outlined in DARPA's Information Awareness Office (IAO) goals.

Disclaimer: I am sorry for the lenght of the following excerpt, but I wanted to get the relevant information in context:

Subtitle A--Directorate for Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection; Access to Information

SEC. 201. DIRECTORATE FOR INFORMATION ANALYSIS AND INFRASTRUCTURE PROTECTION.

In fairness I did include this last paragarph. However, the bill is exempted from the FOIA, so those clauses will have no real effect.
111 posted on 11/14/2002 8:46:58 AM PST by antidisestablishment
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To: sheltonmac
Conservative no longer means what you and I grew up understanding. The new conservative is one who places party over principle and security over liberty. Sovereignty and responsibility have been purged from their lexicon.
112 posted on 11/14/2002 8:52:53 AM PST by antidisestablishment
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To: antidisestablishment
So true. And so sad.
113 posted on 11/14/2002 8:54:03 AM PST by sheltonmac
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To: All
My question is this...."Why didn't I know about this before now?"

I heard this on WGN this morning, and must say I was taken aback!!

I can't understand why even we on FR scoff at this. Is it true..or is Safire making it up? If it is true, and the Senate is soon to pass it with the majority now....then shouldn't the full extent of this HOMELAND SECURITY be given to the "people" in it's fullness before passage..or...

Do we rubber stamp everything because we are in the majority, and we can do no wrong? Maybe I am barking at something I don't totally understand, but all along, I never thought Homeland Security delt with MY privacy. Sooooooooo...

Is what Safire says true..or is it MEMOREX??????????

114 posted on 11/14/2002 8:57:07 AM PST by Neenah
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To: Neenah
Check it out yourself. Homepage of the Information Awarness Office

Some example technologies:

Human network analysis and behavior model building engines

Story telling, change detection, and truth maintenance.
115 posted on 11/14/2002 9:22:03 AM PST by SkyRat
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To: DAnconia55
Might I suggest a new title?

I Don't Like John Poindexter!

Safire starts off talking about the Homeland Security Act (Paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 of the article) then goes off on a rant about Poindexter, Iran Contra, Reagan, and Bush (Paragraphs 4 through 13).

And, yes, I get his point. We should all be concerned.

116 posted on 11/14/2002 9:34:07 AM PST by TankerKC
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To: Neenah
For the text of the bill, click here.

To download the pdf, click here.

117 posted on 11/14/2002 9:35:05 AM PST by antidisestablishment
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To: DAnconia55
Cargo containers still come in unchecked. Trucks still cross the border unchecked. Our borders are non-existant. We are still allowing folks who've been indoctrinated their whole lives to hate everything USA to immigrate here. We still have illegals inside our borders who are captured, then let go like the W., D.C. are sniper was.

Aren't you glad this database will resolve all our problems.

You are public enemy number one. Don't lose sight of that and the whole plan falls into place.

We will rue the day we signed off on all this.

118 posted on 11/14/2002 10:03:15 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: per loin
But is our war against Islam, or against the US Constitution?

What is Unconstitutional about this proposal??

We are at war. If we want to wipe out Islam from the face of the globe we have to make some sacrifices.

119 posted on 11/14/2002 10:08:54 AM PST by Gooseberry
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To: antidisestablishment
(14) To establish and utilize, in conjunction with the chief information officer of the Department, a secure communications and information technology infrastructure, including data-mining and other advanced analytical tools, in order to access, receive, and analyze data and information in furtherance of the responsibilities under this section, and to disseminate information acquired and analyzed by the Department, as appropriate.

This verbiage talks about how they are going to use data, not the data they will be gathering per se. Data mining? The feds? Cripes, they couldn't even run a simple SQL query on the sniper database to discover a Caprice with a lot of entries.

This will be a data landfill, not a data warehouse.

120 posted on 11/14/2002 10:46:48 AM PST by dirtboy
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