Libertarians are big time spoilers in Gov races

ma-firearms@world.std.com ^ | 11/6/02 | Ioffe

[pabianice]

* means NRA endorsment. Grade is the NRA grade.

Alabama:

*(D) Siegelman 674,052 A+

(R) Riley 670,913 A

(L) Sophocleus 23,242

Oregon:

(D) Kulongoski 493,385 C+

(R) Mannix 490,745 A

(L) Cox 47,444

Wisconsin:

(D) Doyle 800,958 F

*(R) McCallum 732,781 A

(L) Thompson 185,085

Wyoming:

(D) Freudenthal 89,407 A-

*(R) Bebout 85,556 A+

(L) Dawson 3,800

Not to mention that Thune will probably lose South Dakota Senate seat by a smaller margin that the Libertarian in that race got...

(D) Johnson 167,481 C+

*(R) Thune 166,954 A

(L) Evans 3,071

So basically Libertarians brought 2 anti-gun governors, and possibly kept Daschle's clone in power. My question is why Libertarians run against good pro-gun candidates? I realize that there are other issues besides guns. Meanwhile people of Wisconsin have to wait another 4 years for gun licenses...

[Letitring]

See? Now you slam the site. Why be here if you feel the way you say you do???????

[Protagoras]

And I think the Republicans ran on a lie. They claimed to be for limited constitutional government.

Now the time for excuses is over. They have ALL the power. ALL branches of government are under their control.

And now we will see they enact one of their top priorities,

A new unconstitutional wealth transfer scheme, a new entitlement which will NEVER go away. Prescription Drug giveaway.

So who says the Republicans don't like drugs? They love giving them away to buy votes!!!

[Drango]

Tin Foil Hat Alert!

[Jesse]

Sorry, hit send before correcting typos.

Once the Republicans start to vote the way they say they believe, I'll start to be sympathetic.

I agree. To all the people who believe that Republicans should have a claim on libertarian votes...you know, like socialists should have a claim on your money...when you can show me a candidate who loses after 100% of your eligible Republican voters actually turn out and vote come back and talk. In other words, all of these candidates would have won had all of the Republican voters actually voted.

It isn't their money, and it isn't their votes.

[Protagoras]

I have never read such insults to people as issue forth from the mouth of Libertarian posters.

Thats pretty rich. I guess you didn't notice Roscoe on this thread. Pretty soon CJ and kevvie boy will be here, and their fellow Taliban LLBAY.

Guess you don't get out much.

[mysterio]

I never slammed the site. The site is not responsible for republican candidates not doing what they said they would do. I was just recommending that you :

1. Go to the front page

2. Read the statement under the logo.

3. Compare that to what republicans have done in the last year, and see if it matches up.

[Letitring]

Then DON'T vote Republican. We all vote for whomever we please. It's just that then we usually go about our own business. Supporting our Party, choosing Canidates, establishing policies, etc. I guess what I'm trying to ask or say maybe, is since you don't like Republicans, why aren't you out there somewhere building your own Party? Why are you, or some of you people here, day in and day out, making enemies of folks who would not normally wish you any harm? It's just senseless, to me.

[mysterio]

Ok, please explain how it doesn't gut the Bill of Rights. And please don't say "if you're not a terrorist then you have nothing to worry about." A "terrorist" is whatever they say it is. And if you don't believe that, I can hotlink you to several police pamphlets that describe you as a terrorist.

[Hank Rearden]

Maybe the Republican Party ought to try actually doing what they claim - limiting government and reducing the budgets.

Might get 'em a few more votes from those who expect politicians to do what they say.

[mysterio]

I have been a member here for a while. I get involved with these threads because I scroll through the topics and see yet another slam on libertarians. The difference is that libertarians really do stand for smaller government and more freedom. They don't just talk the talk.

[Letitring]

I've gotten out enough to know you are one of the worst of your bunch at talking down to people, slinging insults, acting Superior, and have the worst know-it-all attitude, IMHO. I hate having to say that to you, I don't want to hurt your feelings. It's just maybe you could think about your approach to people sometimes, and it might help to cut down on the insults. God knows, anything to help. Desparaging statements to people brings out the worst in everyone, myself included.

[lasereye]

People vote for the Right-To-Life candidate, for example, because that issue is very, very important to them and their conscience compels them to cast their vote that way.

This is a poor analogy. Pro-lifers see abortion as murder and is a moral absolute to them. On the other hand, many Libertarians feel there is some theoretical ideal they're voting for which in its totality has NO chance of ever being adopted, and which a normal person would not consider a moral issue on the order of abortion.

For instance, many people includng myself would like to see the Dept. of Education eliminated. However, if a Republican candidate who can actually win is not for eliminating it, but is still clearly differentiated from the Democrat on a number of issues, and a Libertarian who has no chance of winning wants to eliminate it, how important of a consideration is their DOE position really? It would take a really peculiar person to vote for the Libertarian based on his abolish the DOE position regardless of what difference do exist between the Dem and Republican, yet that's what Libertarians do.

[Letitring]

I think it does match, which is why I am here. Do you think your beliefs reflect this site?

[Letitring]

Do you see that really bad feelings are growing between our 2 parties?

[NittanyLion]

After all, they are mostly pro abortion.

Not so. Any libertarian that believes life begins at conception will be pro-life. Most libertarians I know are pro-life.

[coloradan]

If the libertarians claim to be the strict constitutionalists they claim to be, then why do they put candidates who support the constitution (i.e., conservatives) in jeopardy by running a losing campaign against them?

There is no Constitutional authorization for the DEA, for the T and F parts of the ATF, for the NEA, for HUD, for the FBI, for the EPA, and a host of other federal agencies. Thanks to a Constitutional amendment, there is a basis for the IRS but many agree it is abusive, intrusive, retaliatory, and generally out of control.

When the Rs get down to business and start dismantling these things, you will begin to have a claim that the R party supports the Constitution. Furthermore, and despite the Constitutional authorization to do so, if the Rs manage to dismantle the IRS and replace it with a NRST or flat tax, the Ds will be demolished for years ... if the Rs have the wherewithall to do it. Put up or shut up - it's your stage now.

By the way, I voted for Rs over Ls in two key races, Musgrave (graciously) and Allard (reluctantly - he wants a national gun show "loophole" bill enacted), and voted for Rs over Ds in all races no Ls had entered.

[mysterio]

How can you even say that? They gutted the Bill of Rights with one piece of legislation! They bring pork barrel pojects home to their districts almost as much as the Democrats! I was once a republican until I took a closer look at what they were doing. The democrat and republican drivers are steering the bus over a cliff, and you guys all feel ok about it because the republican has his hand on the wheel right now.

[blau993]

Don't press your luck, Jeff.

[1redshirt]

I'm confused ... why are Republicans mad at Libertarians for not voting for the Republican candidate ??? Isn't it the Republicans job to give the Libertarians a reason to vote for them? If the Libertarians are not voting Republican isn't it the Republicans fault for not given them a reason too. Seems to me that the Libertarians could be mad at the Republicans for not voting Libertarian for the same reasons.

[Republic of Texas]

Although you are only one realistic Libertarian, thank God for you man. You are a rare breed.