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AAAS Board Resolution Urges Opposition to "Intelligent Design" Theory in U.S. Science Classes
AAAS ^ | November 6, 2002 | Ginger Pinholster

Posted on 11/07/2002 7:07:47 PM PST by Nebullis

The AAAS Board recently passed a resolution urging policymakers to oppose teaching "Intelligent Design Theory" within science classrooms, but rather, to keep it separate, in the same way that creationism and other religious teachings are currently handled.

"The United States has promised that no child will be left behind in the classroom," said Alan I. Leshner, CEO and executive publisher for AAAS. "If intelligent design theory is presented within science courses as factually based, it is likely to confuse American schoolchildren and to undermine the integrity of U.S. science education."

American society supports and encourages a broad range of viewpoints, Leshner noted. While this diversity enriches the educational experience for students, he added, science-based information and conceptual belief systems should not be presented together.

Peter H. Raven, chairman of the AAAS Board of Directors, agreed:

"The ID movement argues that random mutation in nature and natural selection can't explain the diversity of life forms or their complexity and that these things may be explained only by an extra-natural intelligent agent," said Raven, Director of the Missouri Botanical Garden. "This is an interesting philosophical or theological concept, and some people have strong feelings about it. Unfortunately, it's being put forth as a scientifically based alternative to the theory of biological evolution. Intelligent design theory has so far not been supported by peer-reviewed, published evidence."

In contrast, the theory of biological evolution is well-supported, and not a "disputed view" within the scientific community, as some ID proponents have suggested, for example, through "disclaimer" stickers affixed to textbooks in Cobb County, Georgia.

"The contemporary theory of biological evolution is one of the most robust products of scientific inquiry," the AAAS Board of Directors wrote in a resolution released today. "AAAS urges citizens across the nation to oppose the establishment of policies that would permit the teaching of `intelligent design theory' as a part of the science curriculum of the public schools."

The AAAS Board resolved to oppose claims that intelligent design theory is scientifically based, in response to a number of recent ID-related threats to public science education.

In Georgia, for example, the Cobb County District School Board decided in March this year to affix stickers to science textbooks, telling students that "evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things." Following a lawsuit filed August 21 by the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia, the school board on September 26 modified its policy statement, but again described evolution as a "disputed view" that must be "balanced" in the classroom, taking into account other family teachings. The exact impact of the amended school board policy in Cobb County classrooms remains unclear.

A similar challenge is underway in Ohio, where the state's education board on October 14 passed a unanimous, though preliminary vote to keep ID theory out of the state's science classrooms. But, their ruling left the door open for local school districts to present ID theory together with science, and suggested that scientists should "continue to investigate and critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory." In fact, even while the state-level debate continued, the Patrick Henry Local School District, based in Columbus, passed a motion this June to support "the idea of intelligent design being included as appropriate in classroom discussions in addition to other scientific theories."

The Ohio State Education Board is inviting further public comment through November. In December, board members will vote to conclusively determine whether alternatives to evolution should be included in new guidelines that spell out what students need to know about science at different grade levels. Meanwhile, ID theorists have reportedly been active in Missouri, Kansas, New Mexico, New Jersey, and other states, as well Ohio and Georgia.

While asking policymakers to oppose the teaching of ID theory within science classes, the AAAS also called on its 272 affiliated societies, its members, and the public to promote fact-based, standards-based science education for American schoolchildren.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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To: jennyp
That part of the flagellum has got to be very inefficient.

That might be due to the fact that F1-ATPase might not be a flagellar motor.

841 posted on 11/12/2002 6:17:05 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: Condorman
we are finally getting to the semantics discussion which means that my point is correct:-me-

Non-sequitur.

A non-sequitur indeed! I had played along with your irrelevant semantic question for quite a bit. I also knew that as here, your whole point was not to discuss the issue but to indulge in ad hominems on me as the following post by you shows. I could care less of your opinion of me the fact remains that the important question, the important point which you are trying to divert from with your semantics and ad hominems is that the definition you and others have given of evolution is a false one.

So the definition of evolution as a change in allele frequency is a cowardly redefinition of the theory. -me-

Redefinition from what? On what authority do you subsititute your own personal pet misinterpretation of a theory for the actual definition?

Evolution, Darwinian evolution which is the subject of this thread implies increased complexity, new genes, new genetic information, and new functions as I already showed in Post#508 but which you seem to think you can ignore now that we are some 300 post later on the thread:

What evolution means is to be found all over this board, however since you are looking for 'proof' that my statement about what evolution means is true let's go to the original source:

"It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; Inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse;. a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows evolution."
From: Charles Darwin, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

As you can see above from the words of the great charlatan, evolution is about greater complexity. The definition of evolution given in TalkOrigins and other evo sites that "Evolution is defined as change in allele frequency over time. That's quantified and measurable."In no way deals with the increased complexity and transformation of species. Every individual gets half the alleles from each parent so the 'frequency' of alleles in a population changes with each birth. This is a truism from genetics. However, this in no way implies any change in the genetic pool of a species or any new genetic information. It therefore does not account for the transformation of species into more complex species as Darwin's definition requires.

Nothing that you have said since that post has even bothered to refute the above statement.

842 posted on 11/12/2002 6:33:20 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Junior; VadeRetro
According to gore3000, all who accept evolution are atheists,

Totally false, I have never said that.

I have however said that you, Junior, are an atheist and are falsely portraying yourself as a Catholic. I have much evidence for this - from your own mouth. You reject both that God created life and that God created man and instead insist on a materialistic explanation for both. You further join with atheist evolutionists in attacking religion. Your words are almost indistinguishable from those of the atheists in your group and have never heard you distance yourself from the atheist statements of the atheists in your group. In addition, when I legitimately try to question you on your assertion that you are still a Catholic, you refuse to answer and instead send in your gang to attack me for daring to question you on what you have given as evidence on these threads.

If you are still really a Catholic, you will discuss the above unCatholic behavior and explain how a Catholic can indulge in such behavior. If you do not, then I am completely justified in not considering you to be a Catholic or any sort of Christian as you claim to be.

843 posted on 11/12/2002 6:49:23 PM PST by gore3000
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To: jennyp
Surprisingly, you forgot to answer my question in the 2nd part of my post:

I did not forget. I view these discussions as a clash of ideas. I am not interested in the qualifications of anyone. The main concern for me is the truth of the statements made, not their provenance. Very intelligent people, very informed people can lie, very stupid and uninformed people can have brilliant true insights. So I do not go by titles or reputations. I would more honor a person who leads a decent life, raises a good family by menial work than a certain President. I would more likely accept that hard worker's opinions than those of X42. In addition to which, I have found that many people on the internet are not what they claim to be, so I do not waste my time with such claims and make none for myself.

While you may disagree with some of the above, I am sure you will agree with the following: let people judge my statements for their own worth - there certainly are enough on these threads to make a judgement on!

844 posted on 11/12/2002 7:01:30 PM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
... very stupid and uninformed people can have brilliant true insights.

As often as monkeys type Shakespeare. Evidence for the occasional lucky mutation!

845 posted on 11/12/2002 7:04:56 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: AndrewC

(Mechanisms labeled in the schematic diagram)

“In the past, I have asked ID critics just what would the flagellum look like if it was not designed. After all, if you pay attention as I do, they commonly argue that this and that does not look like it was designed. Nevertheless, the critics have not answered this question. Yet if the transport/secretion system is a logical ingredient that solves a design problem entailed in making the flagellum, and the flagellum was indeed designed, those looking for non-teleological explanations would misinterpret the significance of such a subsystem and mistakenly impose an historical interpretation on an engineering solution.”

But it seems that there is always someone who might say something like this:
· Duplicate a proton F1ATPase gene. This should be evolutionarily almost neutral.
· Mutate a gene for another fibrillar structure so it sticks to the rotor part of the F1ATPase.

“Here's the recipe for making a just-so story. First, survey the biological world for structures/functions. Find those that seem useful for coming up with a precursor to the system in question and patch them together without much regard for biochemical and/or genetic details. Place the patchwork in an imaginary creature from the distant past that has conveniently gone extinct. Invoke a vague selective pressure that selects for the patchwork and then imagine it is plastic and amenable to further selective modification that just happens to arrive at the system in question.”

It reminds me of that old Steve Martin bit – How to be a Millionaire:
· First get a million dollars…

…or how to build a car from scratch:
· First get an engine
· Attach it to a drive shaft…

But there is always time… Yes, time solves all. Or maybe not:

“Now, if someone wants to start this story with "any ol' transporter," I'm afraid that's not good enough. Remember, that we need to explain the origin of the bacterial flagellum (not some "flagellum"). That means we need to account for the flagellum's type III export machinery, which includes flhA, flhB, fliR, fliQ, fliP, fliI, and more. All of the other bacterial transport/secretion systems cited to support the EFM hypothesis merely illustrate that the majority of transport/secretion systems are dead-ends from a flagellar perspective, as none of them have spawned a eubacterial flagellum, despite them all being equally good starting material at this point in the EFM hypothesis.

“Yet by proposing that the flagellum once existed as a type III system and later acquired the ability to rotate is not hardly any different that proposing type III systems could reacquire the ability to rotate and violate Dollo's Law.”

I think I need to quote Nebullus on this one:
“The only proper response is to reject something like that.”
I don't need to defend logical thinking.

The irony, obviously, in claiming, “Look, this disproves ID!” is that by disproving ID, it becomes a theory…

846 posted on 11/12/2002 7:13:36 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: VadeRetro
riderless/headless chariot anomaly.

Wheelless too...all horses/ego---on the skids!
847 posted on 11/12/2002 7:18:00 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Heartlander
Yet if the transport/secretion system is a logical ingredient that solves a design problem entailed in making the flagellum, and the flagellum was indeed designed, those looking for non-teleological explanations would misinterpret the significance of such a subsystem and mistakenly impose an historical interpretation on an engineering solution.

So ID is unfalsifiable after all?

848 posted on 11/12/2002 7:18:44 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: f.Christian
Wheelless too...all horses/ego---on the skids!

So what does this "chariot" have? Is it galvanized? Does it say "Rubbermaid" anywhere?

849 posted on 11/12/2002 7:19:55 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Placemarker. (Code 69-Q)
850 posted on 11/12/2002 7:20:10 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro
Self will/delusians...run riot/rot!
851 posted on 11/12/2002 7:23:21 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: VadeRetro
As is evolution?… (by the way, you missed the point)

I mean if someone did find one ‘human' skull 3 billion years old, what would you say?

Look, I’ve always seen ID as a ‘theory of everything’ more than a ‘theory for biology’

Pssst… Let me let you in on a little secret… ID is not stealth Creationism, but the Information Theory is stealth ID.
Don’t tell anyone though, OK…

852 posted on 11/12/2002 7:29:31 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
Oooops!!!

I’ve given away the whole conspiracy…

Disregard the last post please!

853 posted on 11/12/2002 7:33:25 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
I’ve given away the whole conspiracy… LOLOL!
854 posted on 11/12/2002 7:39:42 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: jennyp
Or even a five-bladed variable pitch propellor. (French horns are variable pitch too; at least with the proper crooks.)
855 posted on 11/12/2002 7:45:07 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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To: Heartlander
As is evolution?… (by the way, you missed the point)

C'mon! You can think of a falsification.

I mean if someone did find one ‘human' skull 3 billion years old, what would you say?

I knew you could!

To answer your question, it depends. Just for one thing, it depends on whether or not it turns up in Paluxy River, TX and is found by Carl Baugh.

In Darwin's day, the picture presented by the fossil record, the geologic column, and the then-known extant species had just crystalized enough for he and Wallace to see what is going on. 150 years later, it's getting unlikely--a little late in the game--for the trends in the evidence becoming apparent then to reverse. But an apparent 3-billion year old skull would demonstrate that something we think we know is wrong.

Pssst… Let me let you in on a little secret… ID is not stealth Creationism ...

Is it supposed to be science? There's never in history been a science with less intellectual content.

856 posted on 11/12/2002 7:53:16 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: jennyp; Doctor Stochastic
Just for fun, flagella usually come in groups. There are several motors and the filaments intertwine during rotation.
857 posted on 11/12/2002 7:55:58 PM PST by Nebullis
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To: gore3000
what Nobel Prize winning discovery in biology EVER does not tend to disprove evolution?

Here's an idea. Rather than making grandiose blanket assertions, you take your top pick from the list of Nobel Laureates in Medicine and demonstrate how that specific discovery disproves evolution. You have been making that claim for so long, and with such vehemence that you must be fully conversant with the list, so this should be childishly easy for you.

858 posted on 11/12/2002 8:26:19 PM PST by Condorman
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To: Nebullis
Also, dismissing weaker bonds as less significant may be foolish

Still dancing with irrelevancies eh? Still refusing to take back your insult at Stephem Meyer for telling the truth?:

"…no chemical bonds exist between the nucleotide bases along the message-bearing spine of the DNA helix, demonstrating that physical and chemical forces are not responsible for the specific sequencing in the molecule." -Stephen Meyer-

"Here we go again. Steve Meyer came up with the quintessential creationist slogan. Remarkeable in its stupidity and twisted intent. It'll be a favorite for years to come.

563 posted on 11/10/2002 5:59 PM PST by Nebullis

Have you after almost 300 posts given any proof for your insult? Have you after almost 300 posts given any refutation for the above? All you keep giving is confusionism about possible influences on the ordering of DNA but not a single bit of evidence for any of it being ordered. You have been shown that the DNA pairs do not touch each other and therefore have no bonds to each other sequentially in the drawing in Post# 611 and here's an even more detailed view showing that the DNA bases are not joined sequentially to each other:



You have kept on and on insulting and ignoring all the evidence presented to you and not posting anything in refutation. You know very well that all the possible DNA arrangements occur in living things. The DNA is read in threes each DNA base having 4 possible meanings A, C, G, or T which makes for a total of 4 x 4= 16 x 4 = 64 possible values. That is how the table below was determined, because those values do arise everywhere in living things:

The Genetic Code (DNA)

TTT Phe
TCT Ser
TAT Tyr
TGT Cys
TTC Phe
TCC Ser
TAC Tyr
TGC Cys
TTA Leu
TCA Ser
TAA STOP
TGA STOP
TTG Leu
TCG Ser
TAG STOP
TGG Trp
CTT Leu
CCT Pro
CAT His
CGT Arg
CTC Leu
CCC Pro
CAC His
CGC Arg
CTA Leu
CCA Pro
CAA Gln
CGA Arg
CTG Leu
CCG Pro
CAG Gln
CGG Arg
ATT Ile
ACT Thr
AAT Asn
AGT Ser
ATC Ile
ACC Thr
AAC Asn
AGC Ser
ATA Ile
ACA Thr
AAA Lys
AGA Arg
ATG Met*
ACG Thr
AAG Lys
AGG Arg
GTT Val
GCT Ala
GAT Asp
GGT Gly
GTC Val
GCC Ala
GAC Asp
GGC Gly
GTA Val
GCA Ala
GAA Glu
GGA Gly
GTG Val
GCG Ala
GAG Glu
GGG Gly



So regardless of your dancing around, regardless of the confusion you are trying to create, the fact is that DNA does use all possible combinations and therefore

THE ARRANGEMENT OF DNA IS NOT DETERMINED BY ANY PHYSICAL FORCES


just as Stephen Meyer, who you insulted for telling the truth, said. A truth which proves false your atheistic beliefs, a truth you cannot refute.

859 posted on 11/12/2002 8:34:44 PM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
Nothing that you have said since that post has even bothered to refute the above statement.

Your personal shortcomings in comprehension are poor support for your position. Repeating previously refuted statements likewise. The definition of evolution provided by Physicist is correct, your shrill bleatings notwithstanding.

The theory of evolution has changed somewhat in the last 150 years. Origin of Species is generally regarded as the seminal work, but others have taken that idea considerably farther. That you continually quote Darwin's works as if they are holy texts, ignoring the progress that has been made since then speaks volumes about your approach to science.

860 posted on 11/12/2002 8:37:17 PM PST by Condorman
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