Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

I guess if you can win without them, disabled vets don't count.
1 posted on 11/07/2002 6:17:33 AM PST by matrix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: matrix
... I guess if you can win without them, disabled vets don't count ...
Are we supposed to vote for those who benefit us personally?

I should be voting Democrat too.
3 posted on 11/07/2002 6:22:59 AM PST by Asclepius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Well, I don't know much about this issue -- and I certainly don't want veterans to get the shaft. But, it seems like the White House is constrained by an existing law. I guess some people think laws should be ignored whenever convenient. But Bush feels differently.
4 posted on 11/07/2002 6:23:16 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
This is a very expensive undertaking. Perhaps a phase-in is in order. Vets make a real mistake by subverting their conscience in return for dollar$. What assurances do they have the Dems will come through for them? After all, this is not exactly a new issue. I read about this fight years ago in my VFW Magazine. This has been the law of the land for many, many years.

And it is foolish to try to "punish" someone's brother for the action/inaction of a sibling...

The VFW endorsed Wellstone for Congress. They got taken apart for this action. Vets/retirees make a real mistake by tossing away their votes for an ambiguous "promise" from the Dims.

5 posted on 11/07/2002 6:25:38 AM PST by donozark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
I feel sorry for these people when they would throw away their votes to a Democreep just because they didn't get what they wanted. They would have been better off not voting. Do they get social security along with this? If they do they are lucky. They get their health taken care of at the VA Hospitals. They don't have to pay cemetary/burial costs because they can be buried at a Veterans cemetary. Most people who are on social security ONLY have to pay for their own perscriptions and some of their medical. Some people have to struggle by themselves alone with a small social security check and no-one is paying for their burial plot. I think they should think about what they DO HAVE before they start crying.
6 posted on 11/07/2002 6:25:47 AM PST by areafiftyone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
I agree with bush on this one...why would we DOUBLE-PAY someone who is a disabled verteran?...the purpose of disability pay is to make you whole, financially, not to be a huge windfall so that you can have an even higher standard of living.

Name another job in the private sector where you can continue to collect your salary/retirement AND also get disability pay at the same time.

We owe all our vets a thanks and especially our disabled vets...but DOUBLE payments make no sense, and quite frankly makes them seem petty and selfish for demanding it.
7 posted on 11/07/2002 6:27:19 AM PST by freeper12
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
AS much as I love our veterans and respect them for defending freedom, they don't have the right to double-dip. You either get your pension from the Department of Defense or the Departement of Veterans Affairs, not both.
8 posted on 11/07/2002 6:29:21 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Disabled vets count but they are a VERY small constituency in this country. Concurrent receipt WILL happen. This battle has been ongoing for YEARS and YEARS and I can't believe my fellow vets would consider punishing President Bush for something no other president has pushed for. Voting dim has NEVER been good for our military, vets should know that. Continue to fight for concurrent receipt and it WILL happen, don't give up and DON'T vote dim.
11 posted on 11/07/2002 6:31:49 AM PST by ChuckHam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
I don't believe veterans should be allowed to receive double payments per our current laws. While I deeply respect the veterans and show my appreciation to them at every opportunity, I think they have succumbed to the 'me too' liberal philosophy. They are owed what was promised and not the double benefits. I'm actually ashamed of those who choose to use this as a voting guide- and as a means of entitlement. Entitled to our respect and their legal benefits? Yes. Entitled to more taxpayer money because they found a self serving issue? NO!
13 posted on 11/07/2002 6:35:17 AM PST by Faithfull
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Much as I respect our vets, and don't begrudge them anything they've been given, there are two points I believe must be made.

Firstly, we're in a war-time deficit. I dont care what some veteran's interest group says -- any monies directed to them is taken away from active duty soldiers. Our enlisted soldiers are pathetically paid-- some have to live off food stamps, for heaven's sake, because the pay hasn't been increased enough in the past 20 years. Give them the money first, then the vets.

I certainly dont begrudge the veterans any benifits they derive. But there must be other priorities first. The vets certainly havent been ripped off.

15 posted on 11/07/2002 6:38:03 AM PST by jude24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Before I start, I am donning my asbestos underwear: I put 10 years in service and many of my friends have real service-related and combat disabilities. Many of them are still fighting just to receive their benefits (especially in regard to GWS). If someone wants to fight for these guys, then I am all for it. However, this does not excuse the goldbricking, money-grubbing, disability-point-averaging scumbags who besmirch the name of veterans everywhere by their fraud.

These bastards are the same ROADies we all met before we got out. You remember them: The guys who regaled young troops about their “combat” experience, but got very quiet when a real veteran came in. The guys who would get mad if asked questions about their exact duty stations and units during hostilities. The guys who could went to the same sick call as you, but always came out with a pass while you got two Tylenol. The guys who always had a waiver when it came to heavy labor. The guys who told you how to pad your medical records with false claims so you could “get what’s due to you” before you leave. The guy who now tells people how he received a Purple Heart, but the closest he ever got to a combat injury was a magic bullet in Pusan for an unreported STD.

These are the guys who are clamoring for double-dipping. They want standards lowered so everyone is eligible for benefits. They want universal health care. They want equalization of pay. They want to be guaranteed a living. They feel that Uncle Sam should pay for everything for the rest of their days. Now, I am all for taking care of our vets, but I do not support even disabled veterans getting paid twice for their service—as valiant or as unremarkable as it may have been. And for God’s sake, if it does happen, make sure it isn’t universal. It needs to be for documented combat injury or catastrophic problems directly related to a persons’ service.

22 posted on 11/07/2002 7:18:55 AM PST by antidisestablishment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Its nice to see so many so called conservative Republicans 'real' feelings on wounded combat vets..who stick out 20 yrs of serice ..retire and find their war wounds are aggrevated by old age to the point they can no longer function as their non combat veteran draft dodging peers...

In other words...I go fight for you ...and get wounded...I continue to serve put in my 20- with the pain of my wounds- and when this is aggrevated to the point I cannot find suitiable work in the civilian sector...screw me?..

And I get called names like "double dipper"...how about "leech on society"...you clowns were always good for that one..I used to love listening to David Stockman's claims that veterans thought the govt. was a big vending machine...

One check is for 20 or 30 yrs faithfull service the other is for being disabled in that service...
Just as in every private sector and all other Govt sectors...If I put in my 20 I get my retirement check...If I get hurt on the job..and that is aggrevated by my job to the point where I can no longer work after retirement (the retirement is mandatory by the way) I get an additional check for my disabilty...

VA medical care is not only a joke..its a very bad joke on combat disabled veterans...
Teaching hospitals where vets make suitable guinea pigs (they cant sue for malpractice)
Great place for MDs who have lost their state licenses
Great place for foreign docs who dont speak recognizable english...they work cheap

It sends a big message to soldiers...you get wounded ..you arent going to get taken care of..

I to vote straight Repub...anything Clinton stinks to high heaven...Clinton loathes the military and the Vet... I had higher hopes for GW...

He is wrong on this issue and not getting gear that works and training that works to our kids going into harms way..and that is wrong no matter what party does it...
24 posted on 11/07/2002 7:37:20 AM PST by joesnuffy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
The Clearwater, Fla., man said he voted against Gov. Jeb Bush as a protest against Bush's brother, who is threatening to veto defense legislation that would increase pension payments to disabled military retirees - veterans with 20 or more years of service.

The article doesn't say Bush is vetoing the bill because of this provision. Is it possible that there is something else wrong with the bill and this measure could be included in a better bill that would get signed?

I know the Dumbocrats have been running the Senate, so I think its unlikely that this issue is as simple as this article makes it sound.

26 posted on 11/07/2002 7:54:36 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
My husband is disabled from service with the USAF.He also recieves retirement pay. Sure he would like to have that extra pay, But he has better sence than to turn his back on the Rep. who have stood with the VETS all these years
27 posted on 11/07/2002 8:04:29 AM PST by MamaK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
Disability and retirement are two entirely different things, and should be treated accordingly. If any other organization tried to confuse disability and retirement benefits, they would successfully be sued in civil court. The "concurrent receipt" law was and is unfair at its heart and should be repealed.

However, voting Democrat is not the way for vets to make this point. This should be lobbied through representatives and the Republican Party leadership. Turning to the Dark Side is not the answer.

The 'rats are no friends of vets. Never have been, never will be.
28 posted on 11/07/2002 8:17:50 AM PST by Imal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix

TownHall.com Columnists
Join the Opinion Alert!

TownHall.com
columnists


Books by Town Hall columnists

Oliver North (archive)
(printer-friendly version)

July 26, 2002

It's about keeping promises

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- It's been a lousy summer for President George W. Bush. Republican leaders are grousing that he isn't doing enough to keep GOP control of the House. Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld has his arm in a cast, and the Pentagon press corps is beating him up because we can't find Osama's body. Diplomatic correspondents are howling that the president isn't tough enough on Israel. The business press blames him for the stock market collapse and for being soft on corporate crooks. And now the gossip columnists are piling on over the length of his vacation. No wonder the man wants to spend a month in Crawford. But while he's at the ranch, he had better phone Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Director Mitch Daniels or it could get even worse. If he doesn't, some of his most fervent supporters will start re-thinking their loyalty.

Who are they? America's soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, veterans and military retirees. The troops' lament: broken promises.

Here's the problem. When he was campaigning for commander in chief, Bush habitually said things like: "To the veteran, we owe gratitude -- shown not just in words of tribute, but in acts of care and attention. ... As president, I will work with Congress to raise the standard of service -- not just for veterans, but for our military retirees. All of them must be treated with the care they have been promised and the dignity they have earned."

Gov. Bush spoke those words to the American Legion in Milwaukee, Wisc., on Sept. 6, 2000, and replicated them throughout his campaign. America's military and veteran families -- more than 26 million of them -- heard and believed. And overwhelmingly, they voted for him -- as was evident after dimpled chads and absentee ballots became big issues in Florida. Many military and veteran families believe that if it weren't for them, George W. Bush wouldn't be president. And they may be right.

To his credit, Bush continued his courtship of veterans after his inaugural. At a Memorial Day breakfast in the East Room on May 28, 2001, he said: "America's veterans ask only that government honor its commitments as they honored theirs. They ask that their interests be protected, as they protected their country's interest in foreign lands. In all matters of concern to veterans -- from health care to program funding -- you have my pledge that those commitments will be kept. My administration will do all it can to assist our veterans and to correct oversights of the past." Great stuff. Too bad that this week the Bush administration's budget boss, OMB Director Mitch Daniels, made all those promises appear hollow.

The issue, like so much else in the federal government, is a little-known inequity with an arcane moniker: "concurrent receipt," a provision of law that prohibits retired military veterans from drawing full retirement checks if they also receive a disability payment. What it means is that those who suffer a disabling wound defending our country will be financially punished if they somehow manage to stay in the armed forces long enough to retire. Sound nuts? It is.

In the interest of full disclosure, let me make this personal. During my 22 years in the Marines, I wasn't always quick or agile enough to get out of the way when our nation's enemies were doing bad things. My fellow Marines pinned a couple of purple hearts on my uniform to remind others of my clumsiness.

When I got around to retiring in 1988, a Navy doctor wrote up a long report describing various wounds and injuries. The Department of Veteran's Affairs took the doctor's evaluation and decided that the damage was worth about $450 per month. What I didn't understand at the time was the ingenious way our government had of paying me roughly $5,400 per year. It comes out of my own pocket. Every month, my retirement check is reduced by precisely the amount of my disability payment. And that's exactly how it's done for roughly 550,000 other disabled, retired veterans.

No one would dare to reduce retirement benefits for postal workers with hernias from hoisting mailbags. Nor would anyone in Congress have the temerity to suggest that Civil Service employees forfeit a portion of their retirement checks to pay for on-the-job injuries like carpal tunnel syndrome. Only those who do the dirty and dangerous work of defending this nation suffer this indignity -- the very ones who believed the president's promise that, "My administration understands America's obligations not only to those who wear the uniform today, but to those who wore the uniform in the past -- our veterans."

Unfortunately, the deficit hawks in Bush's Office of Management and Budget are now ignoring this "obligation" (his word, not mine) because fixing the problem is too expensive. The Congressional Budget Office estimates it would cost approximately $2 billion in fiscal year 2003. Of course, bloated deficits haven't stopped Congress from padding its own payrolls or stuffing 8,341 pork-barrel projects, estimated by Citizens Against Government Waste at $20 billion, in this year's 13 appropriations bills.

What's worse, the Rumsfeld Pentagon doesn't seem to grasp that this punitive policy has an unquantifiable adverse effect on retention and combat effectiveness. Do we really want a military force led by risk-averse, desk-bound officers and NCOs who avoid the possibility of getting wounded because they don't want to financially punish their families?

Bush has said, "Veterans are a priority for this administration." He had better make those in his administration believe it because veterans also believe that old axiom, "You can't just talk the talk -- you have to walk the walk."

Contact Oliver North | Read his


37 posted on 11/07/2002 11:53:10 AM PST by advocate10
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
"It's not taking money from anybody," said McCarthy, 56

OK,where will it come from then?Just print it up and hand it out?

48 posted on 11/09/2002 6:41:02 AM PST by John W
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: matrix
I guess if you can win without them, disabled vets don't count.

Sad but true..Perhaps some FR folks could offer a little freep power to help them out

50 posted on 11/09/2002 9:04:41 AM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson