CAVUTO REPORTS THAT BUSH CONSIDERING SCRAPPING THE IRS CODE!!!

Fox News Channel | November 6, 2002 | n/a

[Tree of Liberty]

Neil Cavuto just interviewed Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr., the director of the OMB, and Neil let it be known that he's hearing rumblings that Pres. Bush is considering a total re-write of the tax code and that SecTreas O'Neill is strongly pushing a national retail sales tax!

[P8riot]

Right now, retail doesn't collect taxes on those things. Just keep that the way it is.

Maybe not in New York, but here in Virginia they do.

[Route66]

"That makes sense. What if I manufacture goods in my cottage industry? I buy lots of handcrafted items at the flea market
directly from the maker. If I knew them better I could special order and pick them up at his house. Are we going to send out federal agents to do this to make sure these people charge tax? How is that less intrusive than employers witholding income
tax?
Also, how will I buy ammo from a private seller or small retailer without the government tracking it?"

I'm just today contemplating all this and trying to figure out all the angles, but let me try a couple of these questions.

How is this less intrusive than the current witholding system? For businesses it isn't. If business owners are stuck being the collectors, they will be the targets of the enforcers. If it is based on receipt totals the record keeping should not be a problem for me. I would be concerned if I had to provide a lot of inventory purchase and sales details on a regular basis.

If sales totals are all that must be reported, they should not know who buys what. If you are still able to buy ammo or whatever for cash, there will be no record with the retailer you purchased from other than a cash receipt.

People such as crafters who make things for resale should simply be considered wholesalers. The people they sell to should be required to collect the tax when the item is sold. If they sell directly to the public, they are a retailer and probably will be required to collect the tax. I think that's fair, though potential for abuse of this is obvious among people who don't have a regular place of business.

[palmer]

I have yet to pay sales tax at a flea market in VA where I have bought all the necessities of life: food, clothing, tools, etc.

[concerned about politics]

This is a "junk buying" tax. "Junk" as in non-necessary goods. It will help the environment. People will waste less and consume less because the total price of "junk" will be higher. The left can't argue with that one - lol.

It's also taxes EVERYONE fairly.

[carenot]

This reminds me of what a confederate soldier said when asked about why the troops were so intensely committed to Stonewall Jackson: "He brings us victories".

That is odd. I remember them asking a Confederate soldier why he was fighting. He said, "Because y'all are downhere fighting us.".

[Always Right]

You are proving my point. If we can't stop illegal drug sales, it means we probably can't tax it either, whether home made, home grown or smuggled. If we set up a high retail sales tax, the same thing can happen with almost any merchandise.

I believe the EU did a study on this, and when sales tax went above 12%, tax avoidance went through the roof. Some people see the sales tax as some kind of savior to intrusive government, but it is not.

[P8riot]

I have yet to pay sales tax at a flea market in VA where I have bought all the necessities of life: food, clothing, tools, etc.

Try doing that at your local Food Lion or Ukrops.

[concerned about politics]

I have yet to pay sales tax at a flea market in VA where I have bought all the necessities of life: food, clothing, tools, etc.

Me neither, but the VENDOR is suppose to claim the sales tax on his sales ID report (due every yr. I think).
Just like in a dept store except the price at the flea market includes the tax. Otherwise, it's too much of a bother to add .08% to everything.

[Route66]

"I have yet to pay sales tax at a flea market in VA where I have bought all the necessities of life: food, clothing, tools, etc. "

If the goods at that flea market are used, and if the Fair Tax plan that some have talked about here today were the plan enacted, you would still not pay any tax.

[Route66]

Ha - just realized that 'used' food would not be too appetizing...anyway you get the point.

[Action-America]

Isn't a "progressive" income tax short of that mark [uniform ]?

Yes, it does.  But, an amendment is considered to supersede any conflicting statements that precede it in either the original document or in prior amendments.  That's why the 17th Amendment, relating to the election of Senators, is considered to have superseded Article 1, Section 3, of the Constitution (in the news this week).

The 16th Amendment is considered to have superseded part of Article 1, Section 9, of the Constitution, in particular, the phrase:

"No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken."

To read the Constitution and Amendments and see what each Amendment changed, see the Constitutional Issues section of the Action America web site.  Start with the Constitution.  Wherever you see a link in the text of the Constitution or any Amendment, the linked text is superseded by the Amendment that the link points to.

I hope that this helps.

 

[palmer]

If sales totals are all that must be reported, they should not know who buys what. If you are still able to buy ammo or whatever for cash, there will be no record with the retailer you purchased from other than a cash receipt.

If everyone complies, then any retailer can simply sell anonymously. But if some bad apples start to sell smuggled nails from the back of their truck, then the government may start tracking trucks and nail making equipment. That still might not apply to ammo though as long as there are legitimate dealers. I am simply worrying that in their zeal to track everything especially benign things, they will develop the ability to track everything to the purchaser. I can't say specifically how because I don't know how. But I do know that tracking would be necessary to stop the black market.

People such as crafters who make things for resale should simply be considered wholesalers. The people they sell to should be required to collect the tax when the item is sold. If they sell directly to the public, they are a retailer

Fair enough, but just keep in mind some craftsmen I deal use use home made materials that can't be tracked so the new I.R.S. would inevitably suspect them of cheating (selling untaxed or lower taxed units) and send out agents to test their compliance. This could quickly devolve into big government vs the little guy.

[palmer]

Well, some goods are obviously new, some are not and some you can't tell. I'm not sure what a proper test for newness will be.

[bvw]

I'm suggesting that nothing can supercede the Preamble's limitations of scope, unless the amendment specifically amends the Preamble, and that hasn't happened.

[ancient_geezer]

The most important drawback is the government would inevitably figure out solutions to these problems at the cost of my privacy.

They already have to the level of the State's satisfaction. And it is the States that administer and enforce the NRST along with their own sales taxes that they now take care of quite adequately.

The problem is the same regardless of the tax and taxes are not going away. The history of enforcement of retail sales taxes simply does not support you level of paranoia

H.R.2717
Sponsor: Rep Tauzin, W. J. (Billy)(introduced 8/2/2001)
Title: To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity for families by repealing the income tax, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Or

H.R.2525
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 07/17/2001)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer: http://www.fairtax.org & http://www.salestax.org

[carenot]

Also, how will I buy ammo from a private seller or small retailer without the government tracking it?

How do you do that now?

[palmer]

the price at the flea market includes the tax

I doubt it. I buy at prices negotiated on the spot. A dozen pairs of new socks, for example, can be gotten for a few dollars off. I seriously doubt that the retailer is adding up his receipts at the end of the day and sending in 4.5% for all the new merchandise sales.

[palmer]

flea market. Against their rules but it's done.

[Principled]

...if tax rates WENT DOWN as your income went UP! ...

Oh be still my heart! That would be great if we could get it!