Gas used in Moscow siege may have been BZ

alertnet.org ^ | 28 Oct 2002 16:53 | Reuters

[Destro]

28 Oct 2002 16:53

Gas used in Moscow siege may have been BZ

LONDON, Oct 28 (Reuters) - The gas used to end the Moscow theatre siege, which killed more than 100 hostages as well as their captors, may have been BZ, a London security expert said on Monday.

The Russian government has so far refused to name the gas which special troops pumped into the theatre on Saturday to knock out the Chechen rebels holding around 800 hostages.

Top Moscow doctors say that of 117 hostages who perished, only two died of gunshot wounds and the rest of gas poisoning. Of 646 people still in hospital on Sunday, 150 were in intensive care, 45 of them in a "grave condition", they said.

London security expert Michael Yardley said the gas used may have been BZ a colourless incapacitant with hallucinogenic properties.

DESCRIPTION - BZ denotes the hydrochloride salt of 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate. It is a colourless, odourless incapacitant.

EXPOSURE - Inhalation is the most likely route. It may be disseminated in aerosol form, from solutions, pyrotechnically or as a pre-sized powder.

The human median lethal dose is estimated to be in the range of 35-225 mg for a 70 kg individual.

EFFECTS - Acts on the peripheral autonomic and central nervous systems resulting in loss of motor coordination, memory loss, fainting, dry mouth, irregular heartbeats, nausea, vomiting, hallucinations.

Symptoms are time and dose dependent. Cumulative effects possible following repeated exposures.

According to the U.S. army the side effects last 60 hours.

PREVIOUS USE - First used by U.S. forces in Vietnam, BZ group gases were also believed to have been used by Serb forces against Kosovo Albanians in 1999.

(Some information is taken from draft annexe 3 to World Health Organisation publication "Public health response to biological and chemical weapons: WHO guidance" www.who.int/emc/pdfs/DraftAnnex3WS.pdf)

[Destro]

PREVIOUS USE - First used by U.S. forces in Vietnam, BZ group gases were also believed to have been used by Serb forces against Kosovo Albanians in 1999.

[Michael Barnes]

Sweet...once again, the U.S. is still ahead of Russia...

[TheLion]

"May have been BZ"....I am always amazed at the time spent trying to figure out what something was....we will know when the Russians tell us or one of the hostages undergoes testing somewhere else. Even then, it may not be known. I read there was an Australian there. Does anyone know of any other nationalities that were hostages?

[Destro]

and the Serbs were ahead of the US against Islamic terrorists.

PS: The gas used may not be BZ. Educated guess by Western experts. I also heard it is an opiate like drug.

[getgoing]

Not fair. Fill in the history.

[Michael Barnes]

Foregot the sarcasm tag...Personally, I don't think we'll ever know what the chemical was. My bottom dollar is on the table that many that died were exttremely close to the chemicals injection point.

[Destro]

also, their weak physical constitution from the 3 days without food, etc.

[Askel5]

and the Serbs were ahead of the US against Islamic terrorists.

I'm still puzzled at why this hasn't come out at Milosevic's Show Trial.

Don't folks realize that he -- like the former Soviets whose terror network we're fighting -- is on "our side"?

[Lancey Howard]

This morning the gas "may have been" an opium derivative.
Yesterday, the gas "may have been" valium gas.
Now the gas "may have been" BZ.
Tomorrow, the gas "may have been" bottled Patrick Leahy farts.
Sheesh.

[FlyVet]

Whatever they did, they sent the message that must be sent: "We will neither sympathize nor negotiate with you." Too bad that's the way it has to be, but any other tact will invite more of the same. The only thing terrorist scum understands is to be crushed over and over again until they understand their idealogy is "unfruitful". Dirtbags. /rant

[Michael Barnes]

Your right, I do recall hearing about that the other day. I suppose the Ruskies needed something fast acting. If reports are true, the terrorists had the place wired up to bring the whole building down. Guess your standard dental office "laughing gas" wouldn't have done the trick...

[HiTech RedNeck]

Tomorrow, the gas "may have been" bottled Patrick Leahy farts.

Please not that! We'll take the Zyklon B first!

[Prodigal Son]

EFFECTS - Acts on the peripheral autonomic and central nervous systems resulting in loss of motor coordination, memory loss, fainting, dry mouth, irregular heartbeats, nausea, vomiting, hallucinations.

Soon! Coming to a drug dealer near you!

[Stallone]

Anyone know what bullets were in the Muslim TERRORIST guns pointed at the hostages?

How about the explosives? Anyone know what explosives were going to be used by the TERRORISTS to slaughter the hostages and destroy the theatre building? Anyone?

Socialism is the worst enemy of mankind. Liberal media is its propaganda delivery system. Blaming the Russian emancipators for this heinous terrorist act is sick - the stuff of Clintons.

[donozark]

JACOBS LADDER, a Hollywood movie "documented" the use of BZ by US Forces in Vietnam. More fiction than fact. Yes, our stateside stockpiles had BZ, but I have no proof it was employed in VN. Wind drift would have caused considerable worry, as it did with herbicide spraying. Pentagon denied it was used in VN.

Was it's use consider? Sure, most weapons were "considered." But actually used? I need to see the proof...

[Fighting Irish]

How do we pump this stuff into the DNC?

[Poohbah]

Yes, our stateside stockpiles had BZ, but I have no proof it was employed in VN. Wind drift would have caused considerable worry, as it did with herbicide spraying. Pentagon denied it was used in VN.

Actually, if you look carefully at the Congressional Record, you'd find that it was briefly tried in 1966--and very quickly abandoned, because of something that should have been extremely obvious. That obvious something is the fact that combat troops, who are charged on adrenalin and scared out of their minds, should not be exposed to a hallucinogenic substance, because they will have, in the argot of the Haight-Ashbury hippies, "like...a REALLY bad trip, man."

When US troops tried to bag the BZ-dosed Viet Cong, ol' Mr. Charles must've thought they were one-eyed flying purple people eaters, and reacted accordingly :o)

[donozark]

Which issue of Congressional Record? I did read where it's employment was considered, but not actually used. Nukes were considered, but never used. Many things considered, but never used. One GI claimed he used BZ in hand grenades. Doesn't seem plausible.

Again, not denying it's use in VN, just would like to see absolute proof it was utilized and where/how employed.

Serbs were alleged to have used it, yet evidence of such use is hard to come by. "Lingering clouds" after mortar attacks. Odd "feelings" reported,etc. But firm evidence?

[GOPJ]

Hundreds of people are alive thanks to Putin's creative thinking. That's all we need to know.

The Russians don't have to tell us what they used.

Would we would share information with them under similar circumstances? Maybe, maybe not. It's Putin's call. Let's respect his right to save his own people from terrorist.