(UNCENSORED) BRITISH PRESS REPORTS ON MIDDLE-EASTERN SUSPECT VIEWED BY EYEWITNESS (SNIPER[S])

UK Mirror (Britain) ^ | 17 October 2002 | Richard Wallace, UK Mirror US Correspondent

[AmericanInTokyo]

WITNESS: I SAW THE SNIPER By UK Mirror

Short, Mid-east Looking, He Sped Off in White Van

From Richard Wallace US Editor In Washington

A WITNESS told yesterday how he spotted an agitated man of Middle Eastern appearance fleeing moments after the Washington sniper had killed his ninth victim.

Builder Robert Young was one of three people who saw the suspect after FBI worker Linda Franklin, 47, was gunned down outside a shopping mall six miles from Washington.

Mr Young said he heard a muffled gunshot. As he backed his truck out of his parking spot a white Chevrolet van with two men inside tried to turn into his lane.

He said the driver appeared very agitated to find his way blocked and instead drove towards a nearby restaurant and vanished.

"I got a good look at the guy," he said, describing him as short, slight build and looking Middle Eastern.

"He seemed to be excessively irritated because he couldn't pull into my lane. I thought this fool was going to want to get out of the van, but he didn't. He kept on going." Another witness said the sniper, dubbed the Thriller Killer, used a Kalashnikov AK-47 - a lethal rifle favoured by the IRA - in the latest killing. He saw the man hold the gun to his shoulder, aim, fire then escape in a van.

Several people reported seeing a white van with a blown tail-light.

The description of the man fuelled fears the gunman could be an al-Qaeda sympathiser answering the call for a jihad - holy war - against the US.

America's internal security director Tom Ridge said investigators had not ruled out terrorism in the hunt for the killer. He added: "The communities are terrorised."

For the first time, witnesses were able to give information about number plates on vehicles they said were fleeing the scene. As fear among Washington residents reached fever-pitch, the police issued a set of rules to dodge the sniper.

They advised people to zigzag briskly while they walked, stay in darkened areas if standing still and keep some protective cover between themselves and open areas when standing outside.

The police added: "If you are fuelling your car, stand between your vehicle and the gas pump and bend your knees to lower your profile.

"If you are fired on in an open area, drop to the ground and roll away."

Montgomery County police chief Charles Moose, leading the1,000-strong force hunting the sniper, has called in several military spy planes.

The planes, with a crew of six, can spot a flash of gunfire and track people and vehicles from thousands of feet up and stay airborne for as long as 10 hours.

Use of the planes, which normally track drug smugglers in Latin America and spy on North Korea, had to be given special clearance by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

[AmericanInTokyo]

URL: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12288949&method=full&siteid=50143

[Alberta's Child]

Montgomery County police chief Charles Moose, leading the 1,000-strong force hunting the sniper, has called in several military spy planes.

LOL. Anyone who thinks that Moose character has "called in" anything more lethal than a few dozen donuts is a fool. The moment the U.S. military got involved was the last instant he was even remotely involved in the investigation.

[sharktrager]

This report confirms something i thought yesterday.

I thought the witness meant an AK-47, and either said 74 because he was confused/not knowledgable, or the reporters screwed it up.

[areafiftyone]

If you read some of the other threads that witness was not credible. We are back to the drawing board.

[cricket]

Interesting. . .that the media is not concentrating, much less commenting on some of the eye-witness reports; except the witness who claimed he saw the gun; they are saying that report was bogus. . .nothing at all about the others. . .

. . .well it's 'news' to someone, perhaps. . .

[Sender]

Generally speaking, any information sourced or embellished by the Mirror is bound to be pure anti-American BS. But this is essentially what we have all been reading over here too. And now, today we are told by the Moose that we can disregard all the witness information? This is too wierd.

[Myrnick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this article mentions an AK-47...isn't that a 7.65mm? The killer is using a .223 if I'm not mistaken. AR-15's, M-16's, and Mini-14's look a whole lot different than the AK.

Just an observation (possibly mistaken).

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

It's a ak74. In .223.
They are going to dicredit the witnesses now just like TWA 800, 587, and the OKC bombing. the fools are going to try to cover this up.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Thanks. Agreed. Just wanted some external commentary posted here on FR, from overseas.

A Brit reporter can roam around crime scenes, interview eyewitnesses and listen to a scanner in Northern VA or Maryland along with the best of 'em.

Only difference: Better than even chance his/her stories will get through and not end up on the cutting room floor due to the PC sensitivities of some city editor (or appeals/PC pressure from law enforcement) that would otherwise prevent most of the big 4 U.S. TV networks and major US papers from reporting the 'less savory aspects' of such situation....I am sure that in the next few days we are liable to see more aggressive reporting from overseas who are liable to put two and two together more quickly because they are detached from the scene or not subject to self or imposed domestic US censorship.

[It's me]

used a Kalashnikov AK-47 - a lethal rifle favoured by the IRA -

---

Oh yeah, it's a British paper.

[LibWhacker]

"I got a good look at the guy," he said, describing him as short, slight build and looking Middle Eastern.

Nawwwwwww . . . It was Eric Rudolph. And Richard Jewel was driving. Get with the PC program, already! It's people like this who make it impossible for Chief Moooooooooooooose to come up with a good composite drawing.

[Grut]

...an agitated man of Middle Eastern appearance fleeing moments after ...

So? If I was a man of Middle Eastern appearance and somebody shot someone while I was in the vicinity, then, considering all the speculation about Al Queda, I'd become agitated and clear the area toot sweet, too!

[Shermy]

From reading what Moose said, not the media spin, it is clear that the witness who id'd the gun and broken tail light van was making up stuff. Moose never said that other witnesses sightings about the perp were wrong. He only said such didn't come from the police, which is true, but from media interviews of the witnesses themselves. At no time did he say those witnesses said something different to LE, and no time did he dispute them. (There was similar earlier in the case.)

Whether or not some are trying, by innuendo, to undermine the other witnesses, I don't know. But there's many loopholes in the lack of direct statements from up on high.

[doc30]

The more I hear, the more I'm convinced it's an arab muslim male between the ages of 18 and 38 doing the shootings. THe more the police-spin agents force us to believe "an angery white male" is responsible, the more I disbelieve them. Personally, I think the authorities don't want to say its a terrorist to avoid a worse panic and to cover their own butts if it isn't. It's pre-9/11 all over - terrorism doesn't happen in the U.S.

[Robert_Paulson2]

bingo

[Robert_Paulson2]

I echo your convictions. to a "t" fwiw...

[AmericanInTokyo]

Almost minutes after the Home Depot shooting (most recent) there were police radio reports monitored by people over in VA who said they mentioned the broken tail lights. Did this not come from eyewitnesses? I did not think it was through the media. (If that is what you were saying).

[OderintDumMetuant]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this article mentions an AK-47...isn't that a 7.65mm? The killer is using a .223 if I'm not mistaken. AR-15's, M-16's, and Mini-14's look a whole lot different than the AK.

There actually is an AK-74 rifle, and it is a 5.45mm (similar to a .223 (5.56mm) caliber) linkage: http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/manual/ak74

I had heard that they had a fired casing at one point, which would rule out the 5.45mm. It is perfectly feasible that there is a .223 conversion out. I have to believe that the vounted ATF wouldn't mistake a 5.45mm casing for a 5.56mm casing. (But I did have one ASSURE me that the M1 Garand fired from a 10-round d-box...)

[Shermy]

Apparently it came from one eyewitness, specifically the "Cream Colored Van with Broken Tail Light plus AK-74" came from one person, probably a nutcase himself, who told the police who then naturally broadcast it. If the media uses "witness" in the plural for this specific info, they are in error.
Moose did not say any other account was "wrong". The only account about the other witness(es), as to the perp(s) themselves was
1. It didn't come to the media from the police (not a denial of the info)
2. There wasn't enough info to make a sketch. Assuming true, this does not dismiss the witness reports, although I think the higher ups want to portray it as such. Because one can't give enough info for a face, that doesn't mean they can't give a general description.

[Bosco]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this article mentions an AK-47...isn't that a 7.65mm? The killer is using a .223 if I'm not mistaken. AR-15's, M-16's, and Mini-14's look a whole lot different than the AK.

There actually is an AK-74 rifle, and it is a 5.45mm (similar to a .223 (5.56mm) caliber) linkage: http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/manual/ak74

I had heard that they had a fired casing at one point, which would rule out the 5.45mm. It is perfectly feasible that there is a .223 conversion out. I have to believe that the vounted ATF wouldn't mistake a 5.45mm casing for a 5.56mm casing. (But I did have one ASSURE me that the M1 Garand fired from a 10-round d-box...)

AK-47 = 7.62 x 39
AK-74 = 5.45 x 39

There is a firearm that is a Kalishnikov variant that fires a .223 round. The VEPR II .223 would meet that criteria. For that matter, the M96 Expeditionary rifle fires a .223 round as well, also made by Robinson Armament.

The Ruger mini 14 also fires .223 rounds. The Israelis have used silenced Ruger 10/22's in sniping situations.

The M1 Garand, however, fires from an 8 round en-bloc clip. The M1-A/M14 fires from a 10 or 20 round detachable magazine. The M1 can fire a .30/06 or .308 round (with modifications), while the M1A/M14 fires the .308 round.

Hope this helps.