Another DC-area sniper-style shooting

Wife (FReeper nina0113) | October 4, 2002 | Steve0113

[Steve0113]

Another broad-daylight shooting just occurred, this time in Fredericksburg, VA, just off I-95. It's not even on the news yet.

About an hour's drive south of where the Montgomery County shootings happened, a woman was shot in the parking lot of a Michaels fabric store. My wife was in the store at the time. The victim had left the store and carried her purchases to her minivan. She unlocked the minivan and was loading her stuff into it when she was shot. No sign of the shooter.

No one else was injured.

The woman was taken away in an ambulance, condition unknown. Her license plate (which I'm not going to post) indicated that she had several children.

[FreeTheHostages]

P.S. Sorry my post to you was so heavy, man! I kinda liked your point. Please note I was mostly talking to a lot of sillier posts before. I'll listen to a point about FBI classification anytime. (As opposed to court TV pop psychology points: are those announcers PAID to lie about the criminal justice system?)

[xm177e2]

According to the dictionary, a serial killer is "A person who attacks and kills victims one by one in a series of incidents."

Serial means "Of, forming, or arranged in a series." Killing means... oh, forget it. The guy's obviously a serial killer, I don't know where other posters are getting their definition of the word.

[FreeTheHostages]

"See post #576 for your answer"

Thanks, but since I've done homicide prosecutions in this area, I don't need to read more of your analysis on the criminal law. I'm just happy you posted again. I thought for a moment you had given up your point, which is causing my delight and guffawing here as me and my boyfriend read your points. Please, I do insist: keep trying to persuade me. Don't know WHEN I've had this much fun.

[FreeTheHostages]

"I don't know where other posters are getting their definition of the word."

Well, with the exception of RogueIsland, who I think is using FBI terminology, most people will in choosing language ask for the frame of reference. And outside of such areas of expertise, in common parlance, he's a serial killer. But there are people who want to be in charge of classifying him technically in their own world view so that they can increase their self-esteem by persuading at least themselves (and, improbably, others). And their own world view comes from ... court TV, detective shows, talk shows, novels and supposed non-fiction books, etc. etc. Ever sense I was a prosecutor, I just can't watch those lawyer shows. They're so unreal, they always get it wrong. But popular culture teaches *everyone* to be an amateur criminal lawyer. The world is filled with -- what was his name, Monica's original lawyer? -- Bernard Ginsburg or something.

more's the pity

---

[El Gato]

I would bet that this is all being done with an AR-15/M-16 derivative, as a political statement against US arm sells to Israel. That is, killing us with our own weapon. This is terrorism, one way or another.

Many of the Palistinians, including the official "Security Forces" also use the M-16. They either steal them from the Israelies, buy them from Israeli soldiers/reservists(probably not many) or on the world open market. I think we may have provided those used by the "security forces" as part of Camp David accords...gee thanks Mr. Bill..NOT!

[ET(end tyranny)]

FBI: Maryland shootings fit no category Agency profilers can see no motive other than terrorism

What part of that statement do you not understand? That is the title of an article posted here at FR, but of course you couldn't be bothered to click and read, you're too busy being condescending and facetious.

FRIDAY OCTOBER 4 2002

FBI: Maryland shootings fit no category Agency profilers can see no motive other than terrorism

Posted: October 4, 2002 3:10 p.m. Eastern

By Paul Sperry © 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

WASHINGTON – It's not gang-banging. Or spree-shooting. Or armed robbery. And it's not a serial killer.

So what would motivate two assailants to randomly target five victims in a Maryland suburb, and possibly a sixth in D.C., killing each with a single shot from a high-powered rifle?

Click the link for the whole article. NUFF SAID!

[gatex]

Roger.

[FreeTheHostages]

Oh THANK You for posting again.

I take it from your post that if the motive is terrorism, therefore the killer cannot be a serial killer.

You know this because of your brilliant background in area criminal prosecutions? No, wait, hmm, that would be me.

Let's try again: you know that if someone acts out of a motive of terrorism they cannot be a serial killer because you have difficulty with logic or analysis? Oh, nonsense, why would anyone get that impression from your posts.

While, I'm stymied. I can't think of how you reach your conclusion. I can only encourage you to keep publicly maintaining that the killer is not a serial killer. I think you should add this point to your profile. It might give others fair warning.

[MonroeDNA]

A few disjointed points to ponder:

1. Near DC. Any muslim embassies near?
2. The .223 is not a high-powered round, fired from anything.
3. What type of bullets? Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) is military type. By law. Goes right through, wounding.
4. Fragment rounds indicate hollow points, or better (Glaser, Magsafe). But if they were pre-fragged, doubtfull recovery.
5. Because the shot to the woman went through, likely cheap, FMJ ammo.
6. Because targets hit, one-shot, training was involved.
7. Any gun guy with intent would choose hollow points or pre-fragged.
8. Conclusion: Shooter is trained, using FMJ, soft points, or similar.
9. Near DC. Any muslim embassies near?

IMHO only.

[GirlShortstop]

Thank you for fixing the link. My apologies.

[FreeTheHostages]

There are no Muslim embassies in the Rockville area.

BUT there are plenty of Muslims, mostly law-abiding, in the area.

You may recall that some of the hijackers stayed for a while in Laurel, Maryland, which is only about 20 minutes from car from the scene of the shooting.

The motive here could be terrorism.

[nunya bidness]

The FBI's Crime Classification Manual lists the following:

Spree Murder is defined as a single event with two or more locations and no emotional cooling-off period between murders.

Serial murder is defined as three or more separate events in three or more separate locations with an emotional cooling-off period between homicides.

In addition the manual doesn't have a listing (1997 edition) for terrorism but the closest classification for these events is

126: NONSPECIFIC-MOTIVE KILLING

A nonspecific-motive killing pertains to a homicide that appears irrational and is committed for a reason known only to the offender. It subsequently may be defined and categorized after more extensive investigation in to the offender's background.

Victimology. The victims of a nonspecific homicide are random, with no direct relationship between victim and offender.

What's notable about these shootings is that, if the eyewitnesses are correct, there are two men working together presumably one being the shooter and one being the driver. They would have to share the same ideology. Which indicates a more coordinated plan and hence more specific.

So if the victims are random but the attack is coordinated and continues after the cooling-off period it appears as if this is a serial event. Then again the more obvious explanation is terrorism. Maybe the "new" manual will update the classifications to include terrorism.

[ET(end tyranny)]

This is my last post to you. Take it up with the FBI. According to them it is NOT a serial killer. I think the FBI out ranks you, even though you are pretty RANK!

[P8riot]

So we know that it was a long distance? I haven't heard anything about that. Everything I've heard had witnesses near the victims (some of which were police) describing a very loud explosion. Not the kind of thing you would hear at that volume at an average distance of even 200 yds. Especially from a 223.

[El Gato]

but I just saw on FOX cable that a reporter said LE is going thru gun records

What gun records? Feds are (supposedly) prohibited from keeping them, but the states may be doing it. Chances of the gun being bought in Maryland or Virgina are practically nil I'd imagine. Unless they have the gun, or at least the model, it's an impossible task. They'd have to check all sales of all .223 caliber guns. Just the AR-15s and clones would take forever...unless they are all on a computer somewhere. Doing it the legal way, going the manufacturers and working down though the wholesalers and retailers is probably more than just a bit impractical (and we want to keep it that way too!).

[Route66]

"Any muslim embassies near?"

As is evident from the arrests made in Portland today, Muslim embassies are not the only danger.
You might add the question:
Are there any radical muslim mosques near?

[El Gato]

Bank robbers would rarely be caught, or convicted, if it weren't for security cameras.

How did they catch 'em before there were security cameras? They shouldn't need to be caught, they should be shot by employees and customers. Or by the "posse" that takes out after them as they flee.

[FreeTheHostages]

Well, no, the FBI does have a technical classification system and uses "serial" as a "term of art" --that's a technical legal phrase meaning, essentially, "in their parlance."

But in common parlance -- the world of juries and of prosecutors and the like, and the world here -- the word "serial" applies to serial killer.

Unless of course one is using FBI terms in common parlance, where they have no place, in an order to appear expert in something one's not and improve one's self-esteem. As you can tell, I wasn't on board with letting you complete that project.

It would be hard to explain to you what's wrong with your post without you know more law than you do. But the rough equivalent of your logic is that if I said "your behavior was so juvenile" you would say "No it's not because I'm over the age of 16." That's a silly and overly-technical, one might even say "poser" way of using the word "juvenile" in a language context which is plainly not based on FBI classification systems.

As to the FBI, they are very good and never wrong. With them I find I do actually almost always agree. I'm very happy as a person who lives in this area that the FBI is on the beat. (Oh, and by "beat" I do not me a precinct-defined patrol level -- that would be a "term of art.")

Court TV will kill us all some day, I do fear.

[GirlShortstop]

Court TV will kill us all some day, I do fear.

ahhhh, but where would we be without all the lawyers?!

[FreeTheHostages]

"I think the FBI out ranks you, even though you are pretty RANK!"

Oh my goodness! Was that a pun you fashioned? Congratulations. I think you're coming along nicely in terms of intellectual development. Keep at it! Don't give up. We're so proud of you.