Posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB
CHEYENNE – Spare the rod and spoil the child?
Not so, childhood experts say. Their version: Spare the rod to promote positive, effective discipline and prevent violent behavior by children.
“I really can’t say spanking is ever a good thing to do,” said Sherri Rubeck, who teaches common-sense parenting for Southeast Wyoming Mental Health.
“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”
Ronn Jeffrey, director of Youth Alternatives, said, “Spanking is something adults do when they can’t think of anything else to do. It’s a form of negative reinforcement. Spanking just proves you’re bigger and stronger.
“It is not usually done out of a great deal of thought about changing a child’s behavior,” he added. “It’s done more out of frustration or anger and has only a temporary effect. With other forms of punishment, you have to think about what you’re doing.”
But single parent Johnny Jones said he believes spanking can be effective in disciplining younger children when used appropriately.
Jones leads a single-parenting group in Cheyenne, in which single and divorced parents meet to help each other cope with parental challenges.
Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.
He also has used a spanking as a backup when two or three attempts at another form of discipline don’t work.
“I don’t have half the problems or concerns (with his children’s behavior) that other parents have who do not now, nor have they ever, spanked their children,” he said. “They have problems at home and school.”
Jones said he does not believe spanking, when used appropriately, contributes to violent behavior in children.
“When I grew up, and before then, spanking was recommended,” he said. “The way children acted then, compared to the behaviors we have now, is completely night and day. We didn’t have the school violence and shootings we do now.
“Alternative forms of discipline don’t always work,” he added. “I believe that contributes to a lot of the problems we have. Look at our society, look at newspapers, what’s happening at school. Talk to a teacher who is about to retire about the differences in behavior (when spanking was used to discipline students) as opposed to students now.”
Laramie County School District 1 Superintendent Dan Stephan said the LCSD1 board revoked corporal punishment, including spanking, in 1984.
“Educationally, that is sound judgment,” he said. “Our board decided clear back then that it was not prudent behavior to use that as punishment. There are other methods to discipline students.
“If we have behavior that is not appropriate by a student, we will work with the parents and the student in regard to what the desired behavior would be … rather than modeling something that is probably less than productive.”
But Dwayne Trembly, who taught math at McCormick Junior High for years before retiring in 1998, agreed with Jones.
When spanking was revoked in the district, “We saw an immediate change with lack of discipline,” he said. “We’ve been struggling ever since.
“Appropriate spanking promotes discipline – with heavy emphasis on appropriate. That is the key word,” he added.
Trembly said what happens after the spanking is more important than the spanking itself.
“When a child needs discipline, it needs to be immediate, then they need a positive build-up afterward. Leave them in a positive state. Never leave them down. If you do that, you lose discipline.”
Jones also urged caution regarding the way spankings are delivered.
“I think (spanking) instills a line of respect in moderation – but I can’t stress enough in moderation,” he said. “Everything does not merit a spanking.
“A spanking should be done with an open hand on the behind, not a slap in the face.
“I don’t believe in using foreign objects, such as belts, switches, spoons and so forth. (With those) you do not know how much force you’re delivering. If you can’t do it with your hand because it’s hurting your hand, imagine how it feels to that child.”
If used inappropriately or excessively, spanking could cause children to become introverted out of fear of being struck, Jones said.
Spanking should decline and eventually end as a child gets older, he said.
“Once they get beyond 10 or 11, that child is pretty much set in their ways,” he said. “They are either going to continue on in their behavior, or they already know the consequences of their behavior.”
As children approach their teenage years, other deterrents, such as taking away television or computer privileges, work better, Jones said.
“My daughter has told me several times that she wished I would spank her as opposed to taking away her telephone,” he said.
Jeffrey said he understands that some parents feel the need to use spanking as a form of punishment.
“I’m not going to condemn every parent who has ever spanked a child,” he said. “A parent who believes in spanking is not a terrible person.
“Was I spanked? Yeah. Were most of us? Probably. But I will tell you it should be the last line of discipline. The hand should be used, and it should be on the bottom. It should never be done with any object.”
Jeffrey referred to last week’s televised videotape of a young woman who put her daughter in a van and began spanking her. The spankings quickly escalated to what appeared to be a brutal beating.
“That is an indication that the person doing the spanking is usually out of control,” he said.
Jeffrey cited other problems with using spanking as a primary disciplinary measure.
“If you use physical ways of controlling your children, what happens when your kid gets bigger than you? If that’s the only method you’ve developed to control their behavior, you’re kind of in bad shape.”
Rubeck said parents need to retrain themselves to use more positive ways to discipline their children. That can be accomplished by taking a parenting class or reading good how-to books on changing children’s behavior.
Some good disciplinary methods include time-out, praising children when they do something good and revoking privileges as a consequence of bad behavior, Rubeck said.
When working with children, parents need to give “kid reasons” as incentive to behave, she added.
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”
It also is helpful to involve the children in the process when deciding what their punishment should be.
“If you let the child set the consequences, they’ll usually make the punishment worse than that parent would. Maybe that’s an indication that we need to be nicer, if they feel they’re deserving of such terrible punishment.”
You are simply ignorant of your own ignorance.
Do you think having a single child works tha same as having four close in age? It doesn't, and you don't even have a clue.
I believe that it is not necessary to cause physical pain to make a point. Okay, my son is younger than your child. Does that somehow invalidate my point?
You just don't get it, do you? First you still equate spanking with beating. You've never seen spanking done properly so you can't imagine anything other than some woman in the grocery store grabbing her child by the arm and swinging at the child's diapered butt with her bare hand.
Then you don't understand that your child raising experience is fairly narrow. You've got 7 years, I've got 19, 17, 15, and 13 years. Do you now see that maybe your single 7 year old experience isn't statistically significant enough for any general conclusions on child discipline and punsihment?
Let's face it, the ink on your parental credentials is still wet.
He clearly delineates between correction and punishment (they aren't the same thing) and between teaching and training, as well as between innocent transgressions and rebellion.
These are important distinctions for parents to master. Some of the points Fugate makes:
1. Never hit a child with your hand. Hands are for loving, healing, protecting. Use a rod instead.
2. The rod is used to correct rebellion, not as a punishment. As soon as the child agrees with you that his/her behavior was unacceptable, you withdraw the rod.
3. As soon as the child repents of the rebellious behavior, you immediately forgive unconditionally, and love him/her real good and close.
4. Punishment should fit the crime IOW, if s/he breaks something, s/he fixes it or pays with his/her own labor to replace it.
I don't think I could ever interfere in a family matter in public. It's difficult to tell who would welcome a round of support and who would punch me in the eye! But the little boy who was trailing behind his mother in the grocery store and having a whining hissy fit, got the "you better hush it, bud" look from me and his mother spun around FAST because it stopped. I just grabbed the canned pears off the shelf and put them in the cart! ("Who me?????")
Which is what happened, sort of. My elder son, realizing the degree of his transaction, and the impending correction coming towards his butt in the shape of my hand, dropped to the ground and curled up in a ball!
Understand, this child has been spanked on his little rear like twice before. His reaction was so overblown, my wife and I just stood there google-eyed.
We stood him up, took away his TV priveleges for the remainder of the month, made him apologize to his brother, and were on our way.
My point is my son loves me, wants to spend time with me, is generally well-mannered (with occational age-appropriate lapses), and is considered by all who know him to be a really neat kid. I have only had to spank him on two previous occations, neither of which were anywhere near as intense as I received when growing up. Generally the threat of physical retribution is sufficient to make him fly right. I can bring up plenty of examples of our neighbors and friends who don't use spanking, who would never hit their child, and to a child they have insufferable brats. They don't think so, but it is obvious to everyone else.
To all of you who have such wonderful kids whom you have never spanked - I wonder what your friends and neighbors think of your kids?
Good for you! Parents are to be parents, not buddies or bestest friends.
One of mine decided to sit and refuse to walk in the mall. We left him where he sat. He couldn't see me duck into a store to watch out for him. When he realized that we weren't going to put up with his tactics he stopped. We also had several grand parent age shoppers who encouraged us to keep doing what we were doing.
Done right, spanking is a last resort and done very sparingly. As you can attest, it can be very effective.
This is such bull hockey. I was spanked as a child, and I grew up knowing it was not alright to hit other people (except of course, it was okay to spank My child.) My son was also spanked, and he doesn't go about hitting people.
It's the kids who never get real discipline and whose parents are obsessed with their child's 'self esteem' who have the self-control problems, Ms. Rubeck.
In later years, when a time-out is given for an infraction of the rules, it may most likely be given by a judge. (Of course, I suppose plea bargaining is always an option).
I wonder if there lives a bear whose rump was unswatted as a cub. I doubt it. Swatting the cub teaches it how to survive.
Just where did the phrase "smarter than the average bear" originate? It certainly doesn't seem to apply to all that many child psychologists.
Do we see a problem yet?
I've been much closer to your situation than you have ever been to mine. I've had a single child, but you've never dealt with a group of your own children.
You sound like a tutor who cannot understand why a classroom teacher would ever have to raise her voice.
This, I believe, is called extinction technique. You ignore the bad behavior and praise the good behavior. If they get attention (spanking, making deals, giving in) for negative behavior. They get exactly what they want, attention. It is the catch them being good philosophy. Give them the attention when they are good. not when they are behaving bad. just 2 and a half cents!
This is the part of the discussion I don't follow. Were you supposed to raise your four kids by different philosophies until you found the one that didn't work?
Thank you. I are one, uh, I mean I be one.
A dad that don't teach and discipline AND punish ain't much of a dad. Love demands teaching, reproof, and correction.
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