WHAT IS A LIBERTARIAN?....goin' out on a limb here, folks ;o)

9-22-02 | just me

[EggsAckley]

Okay, folks. I've been hanging around here, trying to sort out the local population for about four years. I have discerned that there are "big-L" Libertarians, and there are "little-l" libertarians, and these sometimes do not agree with each other. And I've also encountered some threads where the big-L's seem to gang up on everybody, and I'm really trying to figure out why there are so MANY different ideologies here.

From what I have gleaned, Libertarians (both big-L and little-l) are against big government. Well, guess what! So am I. I think we have wa-a-a-a-y too many laws about wa-a-a-a-y too many things that should be none of the government's business. I also think that those laws favor certain groups of citizens while encumbering others. Of course, the obvious example would be the givers and takers of our nation. The hard-working give to the non-working, who gladly lap up what is offered. Or the issue that's currently a burr under my personal saddle: THE DEATH TAX. But these are just BIG examples; there are lots of little ones.

How about, when we get RID of a few laws, let's make some NEW ones, laws that really HELP people, all people. Like, a law against putting labels in the neck of women's garments? Or a law against the goofy "easy open" packaging? Or a law against too much fog (oops, just being a little selfish there.) And a law against the BIGGIE: it should be a federal offense for any book to be published WITHOUT an INDEX! Ya know, these are laws that would help EVERYONE, rich or poor, left or right.

Okay, I know this is silly, but there ARE some laws I'd like to see enacted, such as a law requiring that all appointed judges be subject to a performance review, say....every ten years. For that matter, ANY lifetime government jobs should be subject to this. In fact, even tenured professors should be reviewed regularly.

And who should review them? US. We the people. Maybe put it on the ballot so that all citizens can comment on the matter. Yeah, you're right.......too many people don't vote, and it would probably turn into a huge and expensive political football, and we don't need any more of those.

Yes, I know I'm veering off from the title of this missive, but it's all still pertinent, in a round-about way. I simply would like to understand why there is so much consternation here on FR when the word "L-libertarian" pops up. I do know that several of the "big-L's" whip out their copy of a book written by a woman whose name escapes me now. But that's NOT what I want. I want to read their OWN words, their OWN ideologies, not some L-libertarian "handbook."

I'm really serious (series?) here folks. Yes, I want less government; yes, I want less laws. Could I be (*gasp*) a closet L-libertarian??

Confusion reigns.

[serinde]

One article that may be of interest to you is Liberty: A Unified Field Theory. I found it interesting.

[Hacksaw]

A Libertarian is a person who puts the Right To Get High above all other endeavors, including taxation issues, abortion, 2nd Amendment rights, and border control. They will regularly try to sabotage elections of Republiucans who support 90% of their platform except drugs (or perhaps that IS 90% of their platform). It is kind of like the labor union who drives their factory to Mexico, where they then pat themselves on their unemployed back and say "We sure showed them".

[Sam Cree]

I don't find much admiration for drug use either, certainly some of it can be and is harmful to others, which I believe could be construed as contrary to libertarian values.

" robbing people of their right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in."

IMO, our Constitution was written to prevent us from giving away our freedom in an attempt to "determine what kind of a society we are to live in."

[Cultural Jihad]

There is "right" to pornography, drug abuse, sodomy, or any other evil.

[A CA Guy]

My current problems with Libertarians happens to be how they end up getting Democrats elected!

I hardly call that conservative.
I also don't call their pursuit of vice conservative.

[Sam Cree]

There is "right" to pornography, drug abuse, sodomy, or any other evil.

I don't think you addressed my point.

Or maybe I misunderstood the following of yours: " robbing people of their right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in."

[Cultural Jihad]

Thanks for pointing it out. I meant to say: "There is NO 'right' to pornography, drug abuse, sodomy, or any other evil."

[tpaine]

Amusing hype here 'eggs':

"As I said, some of what libertarians believe is fine with me, it's just their intensity and lack of humor that worries me." - EA -

Here's another fine example of 'humor'. - [I ~added~ some of my own]

~Anti~Libertarian ~Fanatics~ believe abortion, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, sexual perversions, prostitution, drug use, gambling ect... are all things that should be practiced and enjoyed.

[tpaine]

The biggest 'evil' is a fanatical effort to dictate and enforce your cultist will upon your peers.

[Sam Cree]

I consider myself, I think, to be more or less of a libertarian, though I don't approve of drug use.

I absolutely think addictive drugs ought to be illegal, as people consistently commit violent crime feeding their habits.

But non addictive, I don't think so. If someone uses them and lazes around not being productive the government just shouldn't give him money. That could actually make the individual gain some productivity. If his family wants to give him some "welfare," that would be up to them.

My feeling is that maximum freedom, which gives individuals maximum choices, allows us our maximum motivation, and therefore, maximum productivity. I think that's why Americans have been the achievers that they historically have been.

[Cultural Jihad]

Good thoughts. In practice we would need to dismantle the socialist giveaway programs first.

[bat-boy]

In practice we would need to dismantle the socialist giveaway programs first.

I agree with that. Interestingly enough, both the WOD and socialist welfare giveaway programs come from the same place, i.e., misinterpretation of both the General Welfare and Commerce Clauses. If we went back to the pre-new deal interpretations, then there would be no arguement.

[tpaine]

Booze is addictive, according to the cultists.
But then -- so is the prohibitive mindset of all such fanatics.

[Zon]

FF578 writes: Prohibition would have worked if we made possession a Capital Offense. We need to do the same for Drug Possession today. Along with Homosexuality, Blasphemy, Fornication, Adultery and Pornography. 48

[Zon]

If you think The current President is a commie-pinko socialist imperialist new world order conspiracy member, selling out america to a globalist agenda, and peeing on the Cnstitution, you might be a libertarian (or a democrat, or Pat Buchanan or...)   :0)

Or Chad Fairbanks. ;^)

[Zon]

Libertarians have a lot to learn from conservatives and conservatives could stand to step back and think of individual liberty before defending a position.

Okay....THIS is the kind of thing I'm looking for. As I said, some of what libertarians believe is fine with me, it's just their intensity and lack of humor that worries me.

In each person's life internal authority takes precedence over "external authority". That some people choose to sacrifice their own authority to external authority is always a net negative/loss to themselves and society.

This forum is used by some people that want the power to initiate force, fraud and coercion against people (be the external authority) or seek to enlist government agents (external authority) to initiate force, fraud and threat of force against people on their behalf.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Are you sure?

[Zon]

Sure, why not. ;^)

[Chad Fairbanks]

But... I'm a libertarian within the GOP that supports Bush... Now you got me all confused...