LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE SPITS IN FACE OF TALK SHOW HOST ON THE AIR

DFU listening to KABC in Los Angeles | 9-8-02 | Doug from Upland

[SJC_Libertarian]

Come again? I do not understand the point of your statement.

[SJC_Libertarian]

I already went over that ground, Roscoe. There was nothing disingenuous about my statements, and they are true. Steve Kubby regularly uses cannabis as medicine to relieve the worst symptoms of his adrenal cancer. He fled, not to escape punishment for his conviction for possession of trivial amounts of peyote and psilocybin (allegedly found while ransacking his home on a cannabis "bust"), but to save his life: Staying in California, he would have been forbidden access to the only effective remedy available for his affliction.

[Roscoe]

Staying in California, he would have been forbidden access to the only effective remedy available for his affliction.

The judge allowed him to continue using marijuana.

[SJC_Libertarian]

Yes, I am suggesting that. The amount "discovered" was trivial and useless. The raid in which they were "discovered" was over the cannabis that he was growing openly, and in strict adherance to the rules then in effect for personal medical use. One original allegation was that he had more than he would need for personal medical use, so he "must" be growing it to sell illegally. It's a bit of a stretch to suppose that someone who knows full well that his use of cannabis will be subject to intense public and law enforcement scrutiny will carelessly have psilocybin and peyote lying about the house.

Libertarians spend 80 percent of their time obsessing about dope.

Not even close. If it seems so to you, perhaps it's because you persist in characterizing us as dopers, and some of us then stand up and answer or rebut your characterization. The fact remains that some non-libertarian brought it up. Meanwhile, there are lots of other issues to occupy our time and effort.

I understand full well why some folks think of the LP as the "Let's Party!" Party. It's the easy way to dismiss a serious, principled, but unwelcome challenge to comfortable delusions.

[SJC_Libertarian]

Unfortunately, those who would debate you are not going to be swayed from their opinion that there need to be more gun laws and restrictions on gun ownership.

Alas, it's true. Those who hold that opinion have made up their minds. But I said discuss, not debate, and I only suggested the topic as an alternative to "drugs", and because I see that it is under discussion elsewhere in this forum. Perhaps you would prefer something a bit less contentious, like abortion or taxation of income?

[Roscoe]

he was growing openly, and in strict adherance to the rules then in effect for personal medical use.

False.

But authorities in Placer County contend that Kubby and his wife, Michele, stepped over the line in January when they cultivated an in-house nursery of 265 marijuana plants, 110 of them fully grown and budded females, at their Squaw Valley home.

The Sacramento Bee

[SJC_Libertarian]

Sorry, Jihad, but if you think that socialist tripe bears any relationship to modern libertarianism (other that prominent juxtaposition of the words 'libertarian' and 'communist'), you are delusional. As we use the terms, libertarian and communist are antonyms, and the juxtaposition constitutes an oxymoron. The modern Libertarian Party has absolutely nothing to do with "Libertarian Communism", and their characterization of us is nothing more nor less than propaganda.

[SJC_Libertarian]

Note the word "contend" in the article. As I indicated earlier, if it were true, why then weren't the Kubbys convicted of that offense? What has become of the presumption of innocence? You cite a newspaper article. Unnamed "authorities contend" and the Kubbys are "charged with two counts of conspiracy, possession for sale, cultivation, and possession of various controlled substances and ingestion devices." Quite a laundry list, and the best that prosecutors could get was possession of insignificant quantities of psilocybin and peyote?

As to the judge allowing him access to pot, did you, by any chance, pay close attention to subsequent law enforcement activity?

Whatever. Obviously, I will not succeed in convincing you, so I guess you are welcome to your viewpoint.

[Cultural Jihad]

Main Entry: lib·er·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: "li-b&r-'ter-E-&n
Function: noun
Date: 1789
1 : an advocate of the doctrine of free will
2 a : a person who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted liberty especially of thought and action b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles

It sounds like the Libertarian Communists hold the views that wage-slavery and money in general are forms of force and fraud and the employing class are social and economic parasites as bad as any governmental bureaucrat, and would call the L.P. "statists" for their apparently authoritarian views. If you have an issue with that you'll have to settle such internecine warfare between yourselves.

[Roscoe]

As I indicated earlier, if it were true, why then weren't the Kubbys convicted of that offense?

It was the same jury that deadlocked on the marijuana charges which found him guilty on the other drug violations.

As to the judge allowing him access to pot, did you, by any chance, pay close attention to subsequent law enforcement activity?

Kubby refused to pay even a dollar of his fine and left the area in violation of the terms of his probation. When he was ordered to report in for incarceration for the probation violation, he fled to Canada where he was later arrested for growing 160 pot plants. He now has a Canadian permit for 59 plants, but given his scofflaw attitude it's doubtful that he keeps an honest count.

[Roscoe]

A borderless world in which the state withers away versus a borderless world in which the state withers away.

[SJC_Libertarian]

If you have an issue with that you'll have to settle such internecine warfare between yourselves.

Since internecine means "Of or relating to struggle within a nation, organization, or group; Mutually destructive; ruinous or fatal to both sides; Characterized by bloodshed or carnage", and The "Libertarian Communists" are essentially Communists with an ideology antithetical to ours, any "warfare" between us would hardly be "internecine".

But of course, you knew that, just as you probably know that a dictionary definition is unlikely to give justice to an entire philosophical ideology.

[Roscoe]

If you have an issue with that you'll have to settle such internecine warfare between yourselves.

A spat?

[Kevin Curry]

Most libertarians are obsessed with geting dope legalized. That's the perception, and that's the reality.

They frame the debate in terms of the essential liberty of the human soul to find happiness without state interference, but it really comes down to the liberty to get high witout suffering risk of state sanctions. That's it.

There are a myriad of ways that the human soul can achieve, grow, find happiness and fulfillment. All of these way are rigorously defended by our laws and Constitution. But deny libertarians this one indulgence--to smoke pot until their brains are pickled green--and they weep and wail on account of their "chains." Pathetic.

The only libertarian more pathetic than the doper libertarian who defines his core existence in terms of THC concentration, is the libertarian who proudly asserts he is a dope-teetotaller but suffers unbearable agony because he cannot freely smoke a substance he has never smoked and has intention of ever smoking.

[Cultural Jihad]

So moral-liberal Libertarians claim they alone are the true conservatives while Libertarian Communists claim they alone are the true libertarians. Most interesting.

[Conagher]

Is this episode available to be heard anywhere on the Internet?

[freebilly]

Perhaps you would prefer something a bit less contentious, like abortion or taxation of income?

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. Any sane person who's witnessed a birth or even seen a human fetus at 3+ months knows that we are not dealing with a mass of tissue.

Free people do not murder the innocent, period.

Taxation is theft.

[freebilly]

Authoritarian fascists spend 99% of their time obsessing about libertarians.

Reminds me of the Humphrey Bogart line to Peter Lorrie in Casablanca:

"You must hate me, don't you Rick?"

"Hate you? Well, I would, if I ever thought about you...."

[Conagher]

Authoritarian fascists spend 99% of their time obsessing about libertarians.

Libertarians spend 100% of their time thinking they're actually relevant.

[doug from upland]

Perhaps Brian will put it on his website -- brianwhitman.com