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Scientists attempt to measure speed of gravity
spaceflightnow.com ^ | 5 SEP 02 | staff

Posted on 09/05/2002 9:08:22 AM PDT by RightWhale

Scientists attempt to measure speed of gravity

UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI NEWS RELEASE

Posted: September 4, 2002

Ever since Albert Einstein proposed the general theory of relativity in 1916, physicists worldwide have tested the theory's underlying principles. Whil some principles - such as the speed of light is a constant - have been proven, others have enot. Now, through a combination of modern technology, the alignment of a unique group of celestial bodies on Sept. 8, and an experiment conceived by a University of Missouri-Columbia physicist, one more of those principles might soon be proven.

"According to Einstein's theory, the speed of gravity is assumed to be equal to the speed of light," said Sergei Kopeikin, MU associate professor of physics and astronomy. "While there is indirect evidence this is true, the speed has never been measured directly, and that's what we're attempting to do in an experiment that will not be possible again for another decade."

The experiment will involve precisely measuring the angular distances between several quasars, celestial objects in distant galaxies that resemble stars. On Sept. 8, Jupiter will pass very close to the primary quasar. When it does, its gravity will cause the quasar's position in the sky to shift by a distance that depends on the speed of gravity. Kopeikin and Ed Fomalont, a radio astronomer with the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO), will use an observational technique they developed to compare the position of the primary quasar to the position of other quasars unaffected by Jupiter. Using their data, they hope to confirm the accuracy of Einstein's theory further.

Measurements will be made using the NRAO's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), a series of 10, 25-meter radio telescopes located from the Virgin Islands to Hawaii, and the 100-meter radio telescope in Effelsberg, Germany, which is operated by the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy. "Results from recent VLBA test observations indicate we can reach the accuracy necessary to determine the speed of gravity if the experiment goes well," Fomalont said.

"Japanese and NASA scientists also will conduct the experiment independently using other telescopes around the world, so we'll be able to compare our findings," Kopeikin said. "We believe the general theory of relativity is correct and that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light."

"The techniques we've employed for this experiment can also be used to more precisely determine the position of other objects in space," Fomalont said. "With more exact positioning of satellites, we could improve telecommunications. Unmanned space navigation could also be improved, allowing us to explore the solar system more deliberately."

The scientists said final results from the experiment should be available in mid-November.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: einsteinrelativity; gravity; physics; realscience; speedoflight
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To: mykej
It is just a theory

When the piece of angle iron fell off the welding table onto my foot the one time I wasn't wearing steel-toe boots, "something" was going on.

41 posted on 09/05/2002 11:27:56 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
On Sept. 8, Jupiter will pass very close to the primary quasar. When it does, its gravity will cause the quasar's position in the sky to shift by a distance that depends on the speed of gravity.

A very badly written pair of sentences... speaks of the quasar when it means the EM emissions from the quasar -- a big difference.

42 posted on 09/05/2002 11:28:19 AM PDT by Sloth
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To: Physicist
That's interesting. I searched on "gravity" and found some thngs, but not that thread.
43 posted on 09/05/2002 11:29:24 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale; LindaSOG; Texaggie79; BrooklynGOP; WindMinstrel; Wolfie; JediGirl

Gravity! It cures what ails ya!

44 posted on 09/05/2002 11:34:41 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: realpatriot71
Heh.. good ol' college days.
45 posted on 09/05/2002 11:40:00 AM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: RightWhale
sounds like Jupiter will act as a gravity lens
46 posted on 09/05/2002 11:47:32 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
Jupiter will act as a gravity lens

Yes. Thinking about that, gravity lenses are usually much bigger objects. This experiment is looking for subtle effects.

47 posted on 09/05/2002 11:50:04 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: BrooklynGOP

48 posted on 09/05/2002 11:53:29 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: RightWhale
If the sun winked out of existence, how long would it take for Earth's orbit to change? Would it be instant or would it take the time (8 minutes?) of light speed to effect the change?
49 posted on 09/05/2002 12:13:37 PM PDT by Entropy Squared
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To: Entropy Squared
If the sun winked out of existence

We could figure this out for sure if we found a double star with both suns orbiting close together and a planet orbiting both at a greater distance. There would be regular motion in the system, but some kind of phase lag in the planet's orbit that could be measured.

50 posted on 09/05/2002 12:17:11 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
Heavy, dude!
51 posted on 09/05/2002 12:31:53 PM PDT by Junior
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To: ArGee
I would posit that it's apparent position in the sky and its position in the sky are the same thing, since "in the sky" is only a particular reference frame based on a particular observation point - that of within earth's atmosphere.

You're quite right, of course, and I even realized that when I wrote what I wrote, but my position was (and is) that clarity is a higher value than absolute elimination of redundancy.

...as I further illustrated by using the phrase "absolute elimination..." 8-)

52 posted on 09/05/2002 12:31:53 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: Sabertooth; Trickyguy; maxwell; Constitution Day; Argh; Slip18; aaaDOC; RikaStrom; ...
I don't think we can truly appreciate the gravity of this situation. Ping the smart
guys !
53 posted on 09/05/2002 12:56:42 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: john in missouri
Could ya'll pass whatever you are drinkin'? I think I need some to grasp all this.
54 posted on 09/05/2002 1:00:54 PM PDT by el_texicano
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To: mikegi
under this continual bombardment.

You are not under continual bombardment. You are expelling energy continuously. You are continually bombarding your environment.

And, as long as the rate of bombardment is equally distributed around your entire surface area, and as long as the speed of the energy particles is very high compared to your own speed, then I don't see how inertia would be impacted.

However, it might explain some of the predicted behaviors at speeds near c as your "gravitons" start to build up in the direction you are travelling.

Shalom.

55 posted on 09/05/2002 1:01:27 PM PDT by ArGee
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To: Southack
Ergo, gravity is a GREAT DEAL faster than light.

No, it's just that gravitons are much more massive than photons.

Shalom.

56 posted on 09/05/2002 1:02:33 PM PDT by ArGee
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
If, for example, Hillary's butt were placed in the middle of Times Square, the speed of gravity would permit us to calculate how long it would take for the gravitational rays to reach The Empire State building and cause it to lean, slightly but perceptibly, in her direction.

It would be easier to measure its impact on the sun, the sun being farther away and all.

Shalom.

57 posted on 09/05/2002 1:03:43 PM PDT by ArGee
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To: Mr. Perhapsatron
I'm not sure why, but it seems like the concept of entropy would work against your theory.

In a closed system, true. The gravitons have to be coming from somewhere. Maybe that's why living things grow old? Bigger problem explaining the issue for rocks, though.

Shalom.

58 posted on 09/05/2002 1:04:55 PM PDT by ArGee
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To: ArGee
Hillary's butt = black hole of the Universe.

She sucks the life out of anything.

59 posted on 09/05/2002 1:06:17 PM PDT by el_texicano
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To: john in missouri
John in Missouri for chairman of the Department of Redundancy Department in 2002. He'll fix those ATM Machines for sure.

Shalom.

60 posted on 09/05/2002 1:07:46 PM PDT by ArGee
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