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Shipped out -- How AT&T moved 3,500 workers to IBM -- knowing it wouldn't last
Newark Star Ledger ^ | August 25, 2002 | Jeff May

Posted on 08/27/2002 2:02:31 PM PDT by Incorrigible

Edited on 07/06/2004 6:37:49 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Then his boss asked him to work weekends during his final month on the payroll.

"That was the last straw," the 48-year-old East Brunswick man said. "It told me a lot about the state of things there."

The Armonk, N.Y.-based computer giant was supposed to be a soft landing spot for Fusco and 3,500 other software developers AT&T had shipped there in two waves beginning in 1999.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Canada; Culture/Society; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: att; canada; ibm; india; outsourcing
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See ya!  Wouldn't wanna be ya!
1 posted on 08/27/2002 2:02:31 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: blueriver; Red Jones; Tuco-bad; BeAllYouCanBe; AM2000; BuddhaBoy; swarthyguy; belmont_mark; ...
Bump
2 posted on 08/27/2002 2:06:25 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible
"The work is still being done. They just won't let me do it because I'm an American citizen overpaid relative to someone else who will do it for less pay."
3 posted on 08/27/2002 2:13:13 PM PDT by cruiserman
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To: Incorrigible
Hey this happened to some of us back in the 80's during the first outsourcing push in the 89-92 timeframe.

Imagine being a mainframer whose job was being taken over by indians or being shipped to india. Irony of ironies, eh!
4 posted on 08/27/2002 2:19:21 PM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: cruiserman
Something this article doesn't say, but I believe is true, is that these AT&T programmers were unionized.

IBM is allergic to unions, though there are one or two with a few IBMer's in them. Also, "seniority" has never meant anything in IBM; job performance determined whether one stayed or not.

5 posted on 08/27/2002 2:25:15 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Incorrigible
I work for an even bigger company with even less compassion. Some of my best programming ("software development" in modern parlance) was done 30 years ago when I could stay awake two or three days at a stretch and really focus on a problem in processing. Most of it is still in use - translated into more modern code, but still recognizably mine - they sometimes give me a call when it has a "problem".

These guys simply failed to notice that their performance in this field fell off as they aged and could no longer stay awake the length of time necessary to resolve difficult processing steps.

Somebody in India is younger!

You have to face up to it and move on into a related, possibly less lucrative, but do-able field of work. Right now I am paid for my wisdom, not my programming skills!

The 1500 folks formerly at AT&T who went to IBM could be doing that too but they aren't because they sought to "hang on" just another year.

When it's time to change, you must change, or you will run the risk of being laid off during a recession.

6 posted on 08/27/2002 2:33:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
When a paradigm shift occurs, everybody goes to zero.

A very hard truth for the human mind to accept.

7 posted on 08/27/2002 2:49:09 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Incorrigible
I am thankful every day that my IBM pension started in '96, when a manager could actually shed tears about firing people who were not prepared to leave.

I WAS prepared, I requested and received about $50K, along with lifetime pension and medical benefits for me and my wife. And I began a lucrative consulting career just in time to work my tail off on year-2000 preparations at three times what I made for them. That's over now, but life after Big Blue is still just fine.
8 posted on 08/27/2002 3:11:12 PM PDT by MainFrame65
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To: Incorrigible
The Armonk, N.Y.-based computer giant was supposed to be a soft landing spot for Fusco and 3,500 other software developers AT&T had shipped there in two waves beginning in 1999.

There are no guarantees of lifetime employment. Remember what it was like in 1999? The dot-coms had not yet burst, irrational enthusiasm was fueling the stock market, Clinton's "Justice" Department had not yet eviscerated Microsoft and the NASDAQ, etc. But times change. Get used to it.

9 posted on 08/27/2002 3:41:16 PM PDT by The Electrician
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To: muawiyah
I've been through this several times. I've been working with computers since 1967 and programming since 1974. There are many American companies dumping their American programmers and outsourcing to india and other countries because it is MUCH cheaper and they have no pension or tax liabilities.

I worked for five and a half years in Chicago for Centel (Central Telephone) before they merged with (were bought out by) Sprint. Most of the last year I worked for Centel, I was on disability with severe back problems which ended with two operations before returning to work with Centel. I was forced to return to work before I was capable of returning because they wanted me to be off disability before the merger. I was terminated shortly after returning to work.

During the 'merger' we were given the opportunity to transfer to Sprint, but we had to relocate to Kansas City to do so. There were other positions available at other Sprint locations and I applied for a few in Apopka Florida that was listed in an internal open positions listing. I was told that there were no openings there despite the listing and I later learned that someone else from my particular project team was allowed to transfer to the location I requested.

After being released by Centel/Sprint. I relocated to Orlando Florida and worked as a consultant for GTE on and off for about a year. I followed that with a six month assignment at AT&T in Altamonte Springs Florida and then was hired as a consultant by Sprint in Apopka Florida which is where I originally tried to transfer to from Centel/Sprint in Chicago. I came to Sprint as an employee of another person who was working an a contract programmer for Sprint.

I worked for Sprint as a consultant for almost four years and during that time others were offered the opportunity to 'roll over' as Sprint employees, but Sprint wouldn't roll me over strictly because of my back problems. I was told face to face that they were satisfied with my work and the only reason for not hiring me was the back problems. They didn't want the insurance and possible disability liability.

The IRS has declared it illegal to keep a person as a contractor for over a year, but Sprint regularly kept long term contractors to avoid any pension and tax liabilities. It was relayed to me that in the Kansas City office Sprint had an 'agreement' with another local company where every year they released contractors to work at each others companies and after another year brought them back. They did this to avoid the one year IRS limitation and were playing games to avoid hiring the programmers and paying the taxes, insurance, and other benefits that they were due.

It is much easier to keep programmers on as long term consultants than to hire them and pay them all the benefits due them. A contractor or consultant receives no pension, holiday pay, vacation pay or other benefits from the company they are ultimately working for. After the IRS clamped down, the major companies often brought in the contractors as sub-contractors or employees of other consulting companies to continue the tax dodge.

10 posted on 08/27/2002 4:03:32 PM PDT by dglang
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To: sinkspur
Also, "seniority" has never meant anything in IBM; job performance determined whether one stayed or not.

Hmmmmm... I thought that Big Blue once had a reputation for lifetime job security.
Part of the rationale for spinning-off their printer division as "Lexmark" was so they didn't have to break the no-layoff tradition themselves.

11 posted on 08/27/2002 4:11:43 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: The Electrician
There are no guarantees of lifetime employment.

This statement is only true for some professions, primarily engineering. There are many many professions where lifetime employment is expected.

12 posted on 08/27/2002 4:19:00 PM PDT by blueriver
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To: Willie Green
Hmmmmm... I thought that Big Blue once had a reputation for lifetime job security.

It did, up until 1992, when Lou Gerstner took over.

Now, IBM divides its employees into four performance quadrants, and nearly half of the bottom quadrant ("4 performers") is shown the door every year.

This is the GE Model: Prune the bottom ten percent of your business every year.

IBM figured out that it had to become a performance oriented sales organization in order to survive. When I left in 1995 (with a very lucrative buyout), IBM was still too reliant on hardware.

I have a lot of admiration for the company, and still own a bit of stock, though I got rid of most of it when it was 140.

13 posted on 08/27/2002 4:39:45 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
This is the GE Model: Prune the bottom ten percent of your business every year.

So instead of actually competeing, they're just going to sit on their behemoth fat arses and chew-up or spit-out smaller companies as the bottom line indicates?

How dull and unimaginative.

14 posted on 08/27/2002 4:44:25 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: MainFrame65
And I began a lucrative consulting career just in time to work my tail off on year-2000 preparations at three times what I made for them. That's over now, but life after Big Blue is still just fine.

I never made any REAL money until I left IBM in 1995 after 18 years carrying a bag. I basically traded some level of security for a mediocre compensation plan and the prestige of the logo.

Never again.

15 posted on 08/27/2002 4:44:44 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Incorrigible
One thing this doesn't mention are the thousands of employees that went to AT&T from IBM as part of the swap. Clearly there is an interest in telling only part of the story.

As I understand, this deal was IBM selling it's communications unit to AT&T (Largely from a sub-company called ADVANTIS), and AT&T selling it's computer people to IBM - plus the stated 4 Billion to IBM.

16 posted on 08/27/2002 4:47:51 PM PDT by lepton
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To: Willie Green
So instead of actually competeing, they're just going to sit on their behemoth fat arses and chew-up or spit-out smaller companies as the bottom line indicates?

You need to look at IBM's growth. Not only is it competing; it DOMINATES every market it's in, with the exception of PCs.

Yes, IBM will unload a non-performing division, as it did recently with mainframe disk drives. It also unloads its bottom ten percent in terms of production. That keeps everybody on their toes.

17 posted on 08/27/2002 4:48:05 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
You need to look at IBM's growth. Not only is it competing; it DOMINATES every market it's in, with the exception of PCs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Just wait until they start "diversifying" their portfolio.
I understand that Hershey Chocolate is on the sales block...
With IBM's marketing department, they'll probably find great "synergies" in making the acquisition... hoping the chocolate bars foul their keyboards and stimulate the replacement market.

18 posted on 08/27/2002 4:56:49 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
So instead of actually competeing

Non-competitive is exactly what outsourcing is. It's giving up, admitting someone manages their business better than you. And, being un-American, they don't stand up and compete, they roll over.

Pathetic little candy-a___es!

Play to win, or let someone else get the stock-options, corporate jet, and morally challaged OAs.

19 posted on 08/27/2002 5:03:35 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: muawiyah
"These guys simply failed to notice that their performance in this field fell off as they aged and could no longer stay awake the length of time necessary to resolve difficult processing steps."

Of course! .... I follows as an employee "aged" his or her performance "fell off." And I'm sure everyone stays awake days at a time to ensure the resolution of "difficult processing steps." Man, in India they must stay awake for months at time to get over those "difficult processing steps."

20 posted on 08/27/2002 5:09:06 PM PDT by StormEye
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