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AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR
08/23/02 | Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, Houston Fire Department Fire/Arson Investigations

Posted on 08/25/2002 5:31:16 PM PDT by COB1

About three months ago, under the advice of the Texas Attorney General's office, I wrote a registered letter to Joyce M. Carter of the Medical Examiner's Office of Harris County in Houston, Texas, requesting the coroner's report on Herbert Paul Meadows, known to us as CHIEF Negotiator, who died in a fire at his house on October 4, 2001.

That report along with the Houston Fire Department's report on the investigation of that fire has finally arrived.

Without going into the technical aspects of the autopsy report, CHIEF Negotiator's death was ruled as accidental due to smoke inhalation.

NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY:

From the Arson Bureau's report:

"The fire originated at floor level approximately 4 feet west of the east wall adjacent to the south wall in the formal dining area. At this point the sheetrock on the south wall shows calcination along the south wall approximately 6 feet in length in the area below the southeast window. This suggests an area of intense burning and high heat.
The wood wall base trim at the area of origin was deeply charred by the fire. A wooden dining set of 4 wooden chairs and a wooden table were almost completely consumed by the fire. Small charred pieces of the table and chairs were all that remained.
The fire was very intense in the dining room area and spread to the adjacent rooms to the east, west and north. These rooms sustained high heat and fire damage from the fire spread. The fire consumed wooden doors separating the dining room from the kitchen and family room. Burn patterns were consistent with a fire moving from the dining room area into the adjacent rooms."

These next pics I took through the window shown by the arrow:

Continuing with the Arson Bureau's report:

"Investigators observed that the north side garage entry door was kicked open and that a partial shoe print was found on the door. This investigator was unable to determine if the door was forced by firefighters or was forced prior to the fire."[italics and bold mine]

------------------------- From the Arson Bureau's report:

-------------------------

"Captain ------ of L-36 told Investigator ------ that he found the deceased Herbert Paul Meadows lying in a fetal position, with his head against the west wall in the bathroom near the den. Firefighters dragged the victim to the driveway where he was pronounced dead by paramedics of Squad 40."

--------------------------

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

-------------------------

Investigator ------- went to St. Lukes Emergency Room to interview --------(Mrs.) Meadows who is the wife of the deceased. --------(Mrs.) Meadows was transported by H.F.D. ambulance after the fire. -------(Mrs.) Meadows was treated for smoke inhalation and had been medicated by the hospital but she was able to relate details of the fire.
(Mrs.) Meadows told investigators that she and her husband Herbert watched a late night T.V. show and then she had went to bed while her husband Herbert had went into the den to work on the computer.
Mrs. Meadows stated that she was in bed about 10 minutes as was not asleep when she heard a 'noise or crash'. Mrs. Meadows said the sound 'was like something going through a window'. These sounds came from the other side of the house where her husband was working. This sound was followed by loud screams. (sic)'Was like something going through a window!' She described the sounds made by her husband as 'like I never heard him scream in my life!'
-----(Mrs.) Meadows reported she ran down the hall toward the dining area and was stopped by the thick black smoke in the kitchen area. ----- (Mrs. Meadows) yelled at her husband and asked him if (sic) see needed to call '911'! (Mrs. Meadows) stated that she heard a 'muffled' 'yes!' and then lost contact with Herbert Meadows. (Mrs. Meadows) told investigator that she smelled a 'bar-b-que' type odor like 'when you light a fire with charcoal lighter fluid'. (Mrs. Meadows) attempted to call for help on a phone in the house but she reported the phone was dead. (sic) Meadows went outside in the front yard and yelled for help.

------------------

From notes of the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office:

"Arson inv. reveals no..(crossed out).. flammable fluids"
"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"
"Not sure if they are ruling arson or not"


TOPICS: Breaking News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: autopsyreport; chiefnegotiator; freepermurder; investigation; rip; taxreform; usmc
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To: MissAmericanPie
"short in the wiring, or signs of an accelerant?"

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"

41 posted on 08/25/2002 6:10:49 PM PDT by COB1
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To: SarahW
If Mrs CN went to take a bath, then the water heater probably switched on about that time.

Was CN's computer or TV on the same circuit?

I think there might have been a TV in the dining room.

42 posted on 08/25/2002 6:13:19 PM PDT by SarahW
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To: COB1
There are still a lot of questions unanswered. If the death occurred within 10 minutes of the "loud noise," is it fair to assume that the loud noise was in some way connected to the fire? Could it have been an explosion, a window breaking from an incendiary device thrown through it, an accidental ignition of Herb's lighter fluid while he was refilling his pipe lighter, whatever?

If he screamed so violently immediately after the noise, isn't it fair to assume that he had been either injured, ignited, or horribly frightened by the noise? How does a man burst into flames spontaneously? Something started the fire.

That determination is markedly absent from these reports.

It occurs to me that Herb ran to the bathroom to wash off whatever had ignited on him. But that he was unable to do so before succumbing to the smoke and/or heat.

This mystery is far from solved.

43 posted on 08/25/2002 6:15:08 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: zip
"Does anyone know the background of the neighbor that was mentioned early on?"

Yes, I have his background from the report I just received.
Let me see if I can phrase it so that we can stay out of trouble.
I'll work on it.

44 posted on 08/25/2002 6:15:53 PM PDT by COB1
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To: Dog Gone
It would if there were drapes drawn across the window. The fire bomb would more than likely fall down trapped between the drapes and the wall.
45 posted on 08/25/2002 6:17:01 PM PDT by Kadric
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To: COB1
All in all...Not very reassuring was it.
46 posted on 08/25/2002 6:19:08 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: COB1
Thanks COB1 - was wondering if we would ever hear more about this. Can't believe something like this can happen and there is no evidence of the cause.

The screams are the most puzzling to me as if the fire actually hit and burned him - but there is no evidence of that.

A murderer could not be sure that a fire like this would be fatal to him - so maybe it was not murder.

47 posted on 08/25/2002 6:21:23 PM PDT by ClancyJ
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To: COB1
This info continues to make me think our friend was fire-bombed. If this was an 'accident', what caused it?

Isn't there more info available than this? Does anybody know what fire and police officials are saying down there? What is their latest statement about Herb's death?

If this had been me or you, wouldn't we want our friends to know the truth about how we died?---and if we were killed, wouldn't we want the perpetrators brought to justice?
48 posted on 08/25/2002 6:22:45 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: COB1; Rheo; bonfire; MistyCA
I still haven't received my report.

When I called back over a week ago, Susan said she mailed it August 1. She said she would send another.
Maybe I will get it tomorrow.

49 posted on 08/25/2002 6:24:28 PM PDT by carenot
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To: COB1
"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

Aluminum wiring?

50 posted on 08/25/2002 6:26:37 PM PDT by lewislynn
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To: COB1; ofMagog
Thank you for the hail.
Sadly, it contains more questions and no real answers.

May we all be comforted by remembering CHIEF as we perceived him to be - our dear phriend, phishing in calm waters now.

Rest well, dear Brother ~ ~ ~

* SALUTE *


51 posted on 08/25/2002 6:27:00 PM PDT by LadyX
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To: COB1
Thanks Cob
52 posted on 08/25/2002 6:27:39 PM PDT by Grammy
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~; COB1
"What's the status on the neighbor?"

BUMP!

53 posted on 08/25/2002 6:28:39 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Dog Gone
I don't know when the house was built; however, there was a time in the early 70's when the electrical code allowed copper and aluminum to be used together in residential housing construction (the was a "boom" period, and this was intended to alleviate material shortages). The problem is that these metals expand at different rates under electrical load with the result that at switches and outlets the connections loosen (where you connect the wire with a screw. At first this loosening just increases the resistance, and the outlet and several feet of wire heat up a lot. Then you get some arcing at the connection. Of course, everything is nice and hot so then a fire starts easily and spreads quickly.

We bought one of these houses over in the Glenshannon tract off 59. The "fair warning" that came with house was that we really ought to go around and check every switch and outlet at least once per year and make sure they were tight. Even with that, we had a couple of minor fires in the kitchen at a particularly heavily used outlet (on serval other occasions I noticed that outlet and adjacent wall were hot and was able to forestall any problems by tightening the connection). Eventually, the developer came back and re-wired some of the houses (lots of people were oblivious to the problem) but not all of them.

The fire discussed here is consistent with this kind of problem; however, I don't see anything in the report about electric except that two CB's were tripped off (i.e., no direct attribution to wiring).

54 posted on 08/25/2002 6:30:47 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: COB1; IronJack
Did the autopsy report burns to the hands or arms?
Were there any burns even noted in the autopsy and if so what degree?
If Herb was physically on fire and attempted to "pat them out" there should be some degree of burns on the hands.
The notion that he lit himnself on fire with lighter fluid is laughable.
55 posted on 08/25/2002 6:32:50 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: COB1
Cob, I just want to say that I have had a copy of the autopsy/coroner's report for some time now. It does not correspond with the information from the Arson Team at all. I have nothing more to say on this subject except that when I contacted the coroner who did the report I was very upset with the inaccuracy of information that he used to do his report and make his findings. There is no excuse, imo, for the p1ss poor job that was done on this case. :)))))
56 posted on 08/25/2002 6:33:22 PM PDT by MistyCA
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To: COB1
Thank you for this update. Not a day goes by that I don't think of The CHIEF as I log on to FR.
Continued prayers to Mrs. CHIEf and her family.
57 posted on 08/25/2002 6:34:36 PM PDT by Wednesday's Child
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To: carenot
Thanks for the ping, Care! Amazed that it has taken so long to get those reports. I have had them, as you know, for some time now.
58 posted on 08/25/2002 6:34:38 PM PDT by MistyCA
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To: Kadric; COB1
It appears that the photos in this post were taken through the dining room window in question. Not only would that seem to be an unlikely window through which to throw a firebomb (the ones shown in the living room seem far more inviting for that) but it's unlikely to have been one with heavy drapes, since it's only a relatively small window.

The dining room itself is very small, and is an unlikely place to expect Herb to be at that time of night. It would be very surprising if a killer wouldn't wait until the lights were turned off, and then attack, probably the bedroom, but certainly not the dining room.

I initially thought Herb was probably murdered. After seeing the photos and the diagram, I think that is probably only a remote possibility now.

59 posted on 08/25/2002 6:37:10 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: COB1
COB1, thanks very much for the report and for your keeping tabs on all. A part of FR died that day when we lost the Chief.
60 posted on 08/25/2002 6:38:27 PM PDT by NTegraT
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