Bush Will Tour Fire Line [Oregon]

KGW.com ^ | 8-16-02 | KGW/AP

[Grampa Dave]

This is a real eye opener stat.

The Clintoons selected ......359 Judges.

This is why Da$$hole and Leaky Leahy are fighting and refusing to all the votes/approvals on GW's judges.

Those 359 left wingers and other liberals appointed and the ones who came out of the closet when appointed by a republican president can control this country.

These 359 have probably given the Green Jihadists more power than the elected senators have re making law from the bench.

Thanks for posting this very scary stat!

[justshe]

Correct, Dave. NOW you see why I asked WHAT we do about the bench. I do not know the procedure.......if there even IS one...for recall of federal judges. I would imagine it would be a matter of Congressional impeachment. And I don't see that happening!

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks Ernest. These interviews need to be passed out every good citizen in Oregon. Then they can see the reality of the Floristry Service and their bondage to the Greens Jihadists.

These interviews tell what the reality is when real firefighters have to deal with the Pink Panty Floristry Circus Clowns promoted to management positions during the Clintoon years.

Every branch of our federal government is infected in the same manner. We have to get laws passed to get rid of these Civil Service Left Wing Agenda pushers.

[WaterDragon]

He's kind of pretty. Should find a protector early in prison.

[Grampa Dave]

I don't think that we as citizens can recall federal judges. We recalled Judge Bird here in Kali, but she was on the California Supreme Court.

You need to impeach them. Like with the failed impeachment of Clintoon, it is a two house process.

The house must impeach the judges like the house did with the Clintoon. Then the senate must actually vote on removal.

It would not take many impeachments to see massive behavior changes in these federal clowns posing as judges. We will push for the impeachment removal of the idiot who tried to take God out from our Constitution if we gain control of the senate. Impeachment of him should fly through the house. Then that is again where we need a big control factor in the Senate to impeach even a moron like this guy. He will resign before his case gets to the Senate if it is controlled by republicans.

However, the impeachment of about 10 to 12 really bad Clintoonian appointees as Federal Judges who try to destroy the constitution of make law from their benches would send a loud and clear message to the other rats on benches to behave themselves.

Most will behave as they can't make a living except being a Rat Judge. Also, it is not a legacy they want on their obit. They would have zero political power, the minute they are impeached. That would be a real eye opener to the others on the bench to behave themselves. Once there is a controlling legal authority, the uncontrollable become manageable.

[justshe]

Took me a while to track this down, but here is the information re: thinning for fire protection in east side forests. It is NOT just in Oregon. AND........this only impacts those states covered under the NW Forest Plan (OR,WA,ID).

Grampa Dave, because I found this so late, perhaps you could post it tomorrow or Monday on your thread. Where I live on the Umpqua Nat'l Forest, the 'old growth' designation of 120 years essentially takes the majority of this forest off the 'thinning' map....even IF west-side forests were included.

SUMMARY OF THE FOREST RESTORATION AND PROTECTION ACT OF 2002

ON THE WESTSIDE during the first 90 days following enactment:

The FS establishes, with the BLM, F&W, NMFS and the Department of Justice, the Northwest Forest Plan Legal Settlement Team (Team) to negotiate a Universal Settlement on all existing Northwest Forest Plan area lawsuits: Concurrently: the Team immediately negotiates a moratorium on any new timber sales while the Universal Settlement is being negotiated and while the Surveys (below) are being completed AND negotiates a settlement on the Rothstein decisions (PCFFA II and III) that protects fish habitat and releases timber for harvesting.

The FS and BLM complete an Old Growth Survey to identify the 120 year plus old growth stands for protection;

The FS and BLM complete an Active Management Survey to identify where ecologically sound active management can occur immediately in the Late Successional Reserves (up to 80 years) and in the Matrix (up to 120 years).

IF the Team can resolve the Rothstein decisions, then during the next 120 days they continue negotiations on the Universal Settlement, informed by the Surveys. The Universal Settlement must include the following commitments: (1) no old growth stands (120 plus) will be harvested; (2) priority timber harvest projects are given to LSR thinning and Matrix areas to promote development of diverse age stands; (3) the plaintiffs must agree NOT to the sue on the priority timber harvest projects; (4) Survey and Manage and other Northwest Forest Plan procedures are replaced by whatever the negotiations determine are the new procedures necessary to meet ESA requirements; (5) in the case of the loss of old growth due to natural occurrences, the area affected shall be managed only to promote the redevelopment of old growth.

For the future:(1) If there are new lawsuits on the Settlement sanctioned projects, then the FS and BLM carry an evidentiary presumption in their favor in court; (2) The Forest Service shall create in the Northwest Forest Plan area watershed and stream restoration programs which will be authorized at $20 million over five years.

ON THE EASTSIDE (OR,WA, ID) during the first 60 days after enactment:

The Forest Service shall identify projects on the Eastside as follows: NEPA-ready; ecologically beneficial hazardous fuels reduction; active management; thinning from below; Fire Risk Class III and II; using only temporary roads; blowdown or burns.

The Forest Service forms a Collaborative Review Board (15 members) to review the projects for expedited implementation. The CRB contains representatives from the environmental community, timber industry, community based forestry, Forest Service, and State foresters from each state.

During the next 15 business days (total 75 days after enactment) the CRB reviews projects for suitability for expedited implementation. To move forward on an expedited basis a project will have a 2/3 vote. During the next 15 business days (total 90 days after enactment) the public has an opportunity to review and comment on the projects expedited.

No later than 90 days after the bill is enacted, the FS shall implement the CRB approved hazardous fuels reduction projects. Anyone can challenge these projects in court, but not administratively, if they commented during the 15 day comment period; The plaintiff must prove, on the merits, that their plan for the forest is more ecologically sound than the project they are opposing. the FS carries a court presumption in their favor if the project has been reviewed by the CRB;

For the Future: The Forest Service may create Eastside Stakeholder Monitoring Groups (seven members) that discusses each project before it occurs to develop consensus on the condition the project shall leave the land and how the project shall be implemented. Projects that have an Eastside Stakeholder Monitoring Group will carry the same appeals processes as for the CRB projects.

_______________________________________________________________

There are some significant changes between this bill and the 'Daschle Exemption Amendment' that was signed. One HUGE difference is that THESE fire thinning projects must be NEPA ready. Daschle exempted his forests from NEPA regulations. And then of course, as I read this, all other states are not addressed at all.

[justshe]

The Wyden/Craig bill I posted above is only conceptual at this point, I believe. So I think NOW is the time to make our views known to President Bush and to Senator Gordon Smith this week! And push YOUR Senators and Reps to negotiate a FAIR/SANE bill, ala the Daschle amendment. This hodgepodge bill, as I read it, requires a 'Mother-May-I' from the environmentalists to go forward.

[justshe]

Well......as you can see from the number of Clinton appointees, we'd better do something!!

A nation-wide impeachment movement of eco-friendly judges would only work if we regain the Senate, as you said, but it would also need to be timed for maximum exposure-----which means when we are once again on fire. Unfortunately, you KNOW how the interest in the forest situation drops as soon as fire season is over. The crisis passes.........and another 300 kazillion dollars is budgeted for the NEXT fire season. Face it........we would need a VERY pro-active law firm to back a judicial impeachment movement---and a LOT of friendly Senators and Congressman.

As AuntB said, it is getting easier to post what is NOT on fire--then what is...at least here in Oregon.

[Grampa Dave]

Please remind me on Monday about this "find of yours re Wyden/Craig as per future forestry plans".

I'm heading to bed and will not be on line all that much tomorrow. Monday morning, I will weave it into the thread or you can just cut and paste it into Monday's What's not burning in Oregon Thread. Then, we can get people to read it and dissect it.

As Aunt B noted, it might be easier for the rest of the fire season to say that Canyon Beach and Astoria are not burning yet in Oregon.

Ernest posted the interviews between Brainstorm and the helicopter owners who contract to fight fires. Everyone in Oregon needs to copy those interviews, high light the scary parts and give them to friends and non Green Radicals to let them know what is really happening.

I have been seeing what the one pilot/owner noted re the forests in Oregon for years with the no roads, no harvest of trees and clearing of brush. Now entire forests like the Siletz could just burn up like the Kalmiopsis Wilderness has since mid July with nothing that can be done. That reality still has not sunk into the average Oregon's brain.

Thanks for all your contributions and repost this on Monday.

I'm off to bed.

Everyone living in Oregon please be careful and stay safe.

Good Night all!

[marsh2]

It looks like there won't be a lot of reforestation work or thinning done soon. Our local fire depts. have already been advised that funding of the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act (CFAA) grant, has been reallocated for suppression efforts by the USFS. I believe a lot of funds are being reallocated to cover the enormous fire fighting expenses.

Northern California is also trapped under the Northwest Forest Plan (aka Option 9/FEMAT/northern spotted owl.) My district ranger showed me an area that had burned a year or so ago called the Barkhouse fire. Part of it was LSR (Late Seral Reserve.) The part that was not LSR was salvage logged and "masticated" to reduce fuels. It was then planted. The stupid environmentalists insisted that "green trees" remain in the riparian areas. The ranger knew they were dying, but he didn't want to get stuck in endless appeals, so he left them. They now stand as dead fingers running up the sides of a reforested mountain.

The LSR is untouchable. It stands with dead burnt trees all over the mountain. It will stand that way until lightning starts another fire and finishes the job. Great habitat - eh?

Because of some dumb judge in Kentucky ot Tennessee, the emergency exemption for select removal of dead and dying trees is no more. Now all salvage must go through the full NEPA process. The time that requires usually means that the trees have rotted to the point they have no commercial value. When I toured Happy Camp, the salvage logger in one area had just piled up the trees - they were so rotten, they couldn't even be chipped. He lost his shirt in the "sale."

Here-to-fore, salvage sales had some commercial value. The loggers bid on the jobs because they made a modest profit. The USFS (and public) actually got an income from the resource. The community got jobs, the fuel load was reduced, varmits got habitat and roads were maintained. Now, the USFS is going to have to start paying loggers to remove the dead trees as the trees haven't enough value to cover expenses. (Many times costs also include brushing and maintaining the roads.)

[Paulus Invictus]

The ones around here, including the BLM, are all confirmed greenies and prove it with weekly declaraions of support for the big greens like the Sierra Club etc.

[blackie]

"shoot fast. shoot straight. shoot safe. practice. carry."

Words to live by !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

[glock rocks]

click the thumbnail for a larger photo...

	The Biscuit Fire burns white hot through the Siskyiou National Forest over the Oak Flat and Spud Road areas of Agness, Ore., late Saturday night, Aug. 17, 2002. The blaze has blackened more than 405,000 acres and is the largest in Oregon in more than a century. (AP Photo/John Gress) - Aug 18 8:56 AM ET
	A helicopter drops retardant on the Biscuit Fire near Agness, Ore., Saturday, Aug. 17, 2002. The blaze has blackened more than 405,000 acres and is the largest in Oregon in more than a century. (AP Photo/John Gress) - Aug 17 8:53 PM ET
	A helicopter battles the Biscuit Fire in Agness, Ore., Saturday, Aug. 17, 2002. The blaze has blackened more than 405,000 acres and is the largest in Oregon in more than a century. (AP Photo/John Gress) - Aug 17 8:01 PM ET

[harpo11]

Bumping for Oregon Firefighters and President Bush.

[Salvation]

405,000 acres

I had not seen the latest numbers. Thanks.

[glock rocks]

they're saying 435,000 acres now...

	U.S. Forest Service firefighters Cody Gibney, left, and Kim Hunter, right, both from Prineville, Ore., mop up The Biscuit Fire near Agness, Ore., Sunday, Aug. 18, 2002. The blaze has blackened more than 435,000 acres and is the largest in Oregon in more than a century. (AP Photo/John Gress) - Aug 19 8:38 AM ET

[Sir_Ed]

The local rag says he'll visit Ruch (about 20 miles from me) on Thursday. I just got back from Vegas and haven't heard ANY news about anything, other than GWB's visit!

I plan to be there...see ya'!

Ed

[AuntB]

I've heard this morning it may be invitation only and no one knows where yet. I'll let you know when I hear more.