Posted on 08/14/2002 6:48:27 AM PDT by narses
All I know is the thief on the cross admitted his sin and was forgiven and still had to die for it. God could have brought him down from that cross and did not do it.
But you asked for scripture to back up punishment for sin (consequences), and I posted some. No heat, no animosity - just an answer to a question. David was no minor-league player. He was a "man after God's own heart", but he paid dearly for at least some of his sins, and he humbly, though painfully accepted it.
In the bible, people went and did certain things (actions - possibly penitential actions) and were healed, like bathing in rivers, pools, etc. Certain actions do indeed have power in the spiritual sense. Who am I to say that walking through the door doesn't do any good? I wasn't there and I didn't do it. I'm saying I don't KNOW if the door is efficacious or not but that I DO KNOW WHY people walk through the door and it is not for the reason you stated.
I don't understand everything about scripture, will never understand everything in there, revere it, but must walk by faith and trust that God will not call me to account for what I do not understand.
Many things protestants say do interest me and make sense, but the minute they start bashing the catholic church with lies (because they don't seem to care enough to read up about certain of her teachings) (there are websites all over the place like that).
I'll give you an example. There is an Ian Paisley who has a website. He hates the catholic church. Some of his objections might carry weight, but he says lots of things about the catholic church that simply are not true. He talks about apparitions that the church has not approved, he talks about Mary being a co-redeemer (not approved by the church as of this date), things like that. Why should I believe anything else he says when I know he is not being truthful about things I DO know?
In other words, he TWISTS truth which can be objectively proven (unlike scripture) to suit his own agenda. I don't like that because he is placing himself in the category of a liar (about certain things) due to his blind hatred.
You are preaching at me about something I will never be fully certain about in this life. You are trying to impose your beliefs on me. That is what is bothering me.
Now you have irritated me and I will have to find it in my heart to forgive you and it isn't going to be easy and it will take time.
It would be much easier to forgive you if you could be more honest about the door. But that is my problem now, not yours.
Please be more specific about this "indulgence" - what does it entail? Again, does the act of walking thru a door have any power to do anything? Or is Christ alone who gives favor. God does not make deals. His blessings are gifts - you can't earn them or deserve them.
Jesus healed the man and simply used the pool as a vehicle. The pool itself has no power. Actions in and of themselves have no power in the spiritual sense. This presupposes merit by works. Merit from God is a free gift that cannot be earned. Ro. 4:5
I hate anything that that removes Christ as the center of salvation and attention. I do not hate catholics. But I will expose lies from any quarter whence they come - I will expose them to the light of truth. Many things the catholic church teaches are simply wrong - and some of these things have been exposed on this thread. Their view of muslims, jews, evolution, etc. There are many heresies in protestant churches as well and I expose them equally. As I mentioned earlier, I belive that most people who call themselves Christians are deceived by lies. Salvation comes only thru faith in Christ alone. Faith in Allah (a false god) won't save; rejection of Christ leads straight to Hell. As Peter said, "there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved." Jesus is the ONLY way - period. There is no saving power in belonging to any church or going to any building, or walking thru any door, or following the Pope. You must trust in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. He paid the penalty for all sins and forgiveness is available to all who put their trust in Him (and strop trusting themselves or their own actions). Indulgences are a lie from hell.
I am not trying to impose my beliefs on you. There is only ONE TRUTH. It is found in scripture. Anytime you have men proclaiming new truths outside of scripture, it creates a big problem becuase all men are fallible and sinful. I want to encourage you to read scripture. SCRIPTURE CAN BE TRUSTED - JESUS SAYS SO. Rest on the solid truths of scripture. If your beliefs are false or contradict what scripture says, would you not want to know this? Why not be a seeker of truth? You don't have to believe what others tell you - believe what God tells you through His Word.
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