Posted on 08/13/2002 3:18:01 PM PDT by snopercod
Edited on 04/13/2004 3:29:42 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Every summer for the past 25 years, New Zealand native Maggie Anderson and her American husband have visited their family in Portola Valley.
But never before had her visit begun in handcuffs and humiliation.
Upon landing at Los Angeles International Airport at 11 a.m on July 24, Anderson -- a former flight attendant who had flown in and out of U.S. airports hundreds of times -- was questioned and arrested by federal immigration agents.
(Excerpt) Read more at bayarea.com ...
I agree that walkers would have a tougher time with the northern border than do the poor folks coming up from the south who have nothing. Well financed bad guys could probably manage it with some degree of comfort, if they wanted to.
Remember, this Soviet Union is the same evil empire that could not defeat that fearsome opponent Afghanistan after 10 years at war. Neither could the USSR feed or clothe its own population. Now Islamic fundamentalism is the bogeyman we tilt at.
At the close of WWII we were the world's only superpower, a creditor nation, with no threats from any other country, our enemies (and allies like the USSR) devastated. The US dollar was the standard of value and solvency in a world that we had in the palm of our hand.
In the intervening half-century our "leadership" has thrown all that away, maintaining an insane arms race that has bankrupted this country and left us with the tatters of a Constitution and Bill of Rights that you and I both mourn. The tipoff that we are already living in a police state is the near impossibility of getting through the day without having to show someone a pictured ID or disclose a social security number. And we don't have to elaborate on the ordeal that traveling in one's own country, whether by plane or auto, has become.
Our ever-widening trade deficit is one of those non-subjects that is never discussed and won't be dealt with until it's too late. Since we are now a debtor nation consuming more than we produce, it won't take many more generations until the mighty USA has collapsed in the same dust of all empires before us. Personally, I favor a devolution of power and authority from a central government that has done nothing but put us in harm's way for the last 50 years and stuck "we the people" with a national debt that can never be repaid.
Yes, we succeeded in bringing down the Soviet Union, but at what cost?
Unless of course you crashed a few planes into the WTC, then we will expedite your VISA ASAP (ala Atta and his crew who received their renewed VISA's in the mail 6 months after 9/11).
If INS can't see the absolute stupidity in having non-American (literally, non-citizens), middle-eastern men (the exact people we should be profiling for) doing security, there is little hope. Federalizing the screeners was misguided to say the least, and many of the airports are failing to comply with the minimal standards that were set out post-9/11.
Who could have thought watching the towers burn that we would sacrifice security and sanity for political correctness.
my apologies.....I thought getting different viewpoints is what discussion is about...and yes, sometimes it includes a hypothetical situation. Jack-booted thugery is exactly what is happening to innocent people at airport gates....but since it hasn't happened to you, personally, then there isn't a problem with it.
No question that the Soviets encountered setbacks in their quest for greater hegemony on the world's stage. We had our share, too, with Vietnam, Korea, and domestic unrest. But the Soviets were still able, for a time, to maintain the largest standing army the world had ever seen, a strategic missile force that dwarfed ours in terms of launch vehicles (we had more warheads), and a submarine force that outnumbered ours by about 3 or 4 to 1, at its peak. Oh, we had our advantages, too, mainly in technology, accuracy on target for strategic warheads (for a time), and certian components of our surface Navy (carriers) and Air Force (bombers). Certainly all of this came at a cost, and in the end it proved ruinous for the Soviets, and, in some ways, for this country, but other than armchair quarterbacking I am unable to see much of an alternative, given the times.
At the close of WWII we were the world's only superpower, a creditor nation, with no threats from any other country, our enemies (and allies like the USSR) devastated. The US dollar was the standard of value and solvency in a world that we had in the palm of our hand.
In the intervening half-century our "leadership" has thrown all that away, maintaining an insane arms race that has bankrupted this country...
No question that the arms race circa 1950-1990 was ruinously expensive. I think one thing that made it so for the Soviets was the inability of their socioeconomic system to sustain such expenditures in the face of political reality. In the end, our system, though damaged as you say, remained intact, whereas the Soviet system did not. While I wish some way could have been found to avoid the insanity of it all entirely, again, only with 20-20 hindsight can I offer any criticism of those decisions made at the time and under the pressures existant then.
...and left us with the tatters of a Constitution and Bill of Rights that you and I both mourn. The tipoff that we are already living in a police state is the near impossibility of getting through the day without having to show someone a pictured ID or disclose a social security number. And we don't have to elaborate on the ordeal that traveling in one's own country, whether by plane or auto, has become.
I oppose the police state as much as anyone else here. Those guarantees explicitly set forth in the Constitution absolutely must be maintained for all. OTOH, where does one draw the line in balancing that against the Constitutional mandate of the government to provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare of its citizens? Does the government have an obligation to take reasonable steps to protect the lives of its citizens as they go about their daily lives? I think it does. Does profiling go too far, in your opinion, towards the police state? To be honest, if it does, then how much more does so strip searching ninety year old women, or confiscating the harmless toys of children?
It's an embarassment, sure enough. I had expected a more rational policy out of the new administration.
It was a perfect summary. Thanks.
You on the other hand want to know if I would feel differently if my wife had have been treated the same though she hadn't done anything wrong. "But what ifs" are a whole different story.
This sight is loaded with people who hate our government no matter who is in charge, and they feel its what makes them a patriot... PUKE. What makes a patriot is not only denouncing big government, tyranny wherever you find it, and protesting taxes, but a total commitment to the best interest of our country, no matter what party is in control. Alot of these people are Bush haters only because their guy didn't win. Right now we are in the midst of a war against terrorism which I whole heartedly agree with, and to do so involves tightening a mammoth security system along all our ports of entry and our borders. This lady got caught up in the zero tolerance part of that and then whines, even though she was the commitee of the crime.
Good gosh ma'am, These people were doing their job, stopped her at entry, searched her before she spent the night in their facility, then as you requested revoked her visa. She went home, applied for another and came back. She wasn't strip searched according to the article, but frisked, running your hands through and under whatever undergarments she was wearing to make sure she wasn't concealing anything. No one's door was kicked in, no one was detained on false witness ( you notice she had no argument about over staying her visa, she knew it already), and no one was assaulted or shot. Standard Operating Procedure is to search a detainee before you bring him/her to a facility. Thats why they call it standard, it applies to everyone.
BTW thanks for not calling me names, I've grown tired of not calling everyone a cad.
In an imaginary world like in Sixth Sense maybe. Things aren't that easy at a port of entry that handles the amount of people that enter our country every day.
She messed up, got sent home...thats that. What you and SarahW are condoning would require a staff of fortune tellers and Psycics.
How about we just close down all the mosques? Islam isn't a religion, it's a military organization; and mosques are just enemy military installations.
ML/NJ (A mosque a minute, until we're done.)
You've been getting hammered because you make silly statements and confused posts. A while back you were taking me to task, and then later I saw you quoting my first post on this thread as if it were the national standard of decency.
I guess I'd like to hear from you, and other defenders of this absuridty, whether you believe the INS was punishing this woman for something she did three years ago, or rather whether they thought she might be a threat to us now.
And since you highlighted "ports of entry" like they are some holy place, I'd like to know: Why do I, as an American citizen on America soil, have to open my luggage for these cretans? Why do I, as a private pilot, have to land at some airport I would otherwise have no reason to land at, and then wait for some Customs Schmuck to show up a half hour later to inspect my dirty underwear, before I can proceed to my real destination? If they suspect me of a crime, okay; but I'm just coming and going, just like I do on the George Washington Bridge. How and when did I lose my 4th Amendment rights to these bozos, just because I pass through one of your sacred "ports of entry"?
ML/NJ
sorry....trying NOT to hammer....I promise!
a total commitment to the best interest of our country
I love my country, too. But sometimes a new system dedicated to "a total commitment to the best interest of our country" needs some tweaking. That's how I feel about our airport "security"...I want to see some more fairness in screening before I fly (read into that, "I want to be pretty darn sure I'm not going to be molested since I have no visa issues!").
(btw...I liked your profile)
Can anyone (with an IQ above that of a cucumber) explain to me why a woman (especially one who appears to be anything but a terrorist) whose only ‘crime’ was overstaying her visa by eight days (four years ago) would be considered so dangerous as to be the subject of a body search of the magnitude (and consequent humiliation) that was performed on her?
(I can tell you, without a doubt, that, had it been apparent to me that I was about to be frisked in the way this woman was, I (and maybe even one or more of the agents intending to perform the search) would have had to be rendered physically incapacitated/unconscious first.)
It seems to me that one of two things is going on here:
(1) The ranks of airport security personnel have more than their share of power-hungry sadistic goons with a chip on their shoulder, or a score to settle, who obtain pleasure from whatever discomfort, inconvenience, or embarrassment they can cause to anyone unfortunate enough to look at them the wrong way.
(2) The ranks of airport security personnel have been ordered to go out of their way to prove that they are not profiling Muslim or Middle Eastern passengers, and they therefore harass and detain a prescribed quota of innocents.
That the American government is prescribing, and sanctioning, such behavior against both American citizens, and foreign visitors to our country, is just another example of the (for the most part) illogical, misplaced (dangerous, in that they are diverting our attention from procedures that actually could increase the safety of air travel) reaction to events of 9/11. All we have accomplished (at least on the home front) in the war on terrorism is an increase in government bureaucracy, further federal intrusion into American business practices, and conditioning the populace to believe that it is necessary to relinquish a measure freedom and privacy in order to achieve safety and security.
It’s a shame, too, that American airlines (and all of their employees and stockholders) are paying a terrible price as a result of federal intervention and incompetence.
America is in sad shape when threats such as those posed by 9/11 (and the prospects of more such disasters) bring few workable solutions, and much sanctimonious teeth-gnashing and second guessing …. followed by increased government intrusion into areas of American life on which government is Constitutionally forbidden to tread. While the real terrorists are no doubt continuing to make their way through our bureaucratic safety net with ease.
We're condoning a little common sense. You know, like "Let the punishment fit the crime" kind of thing?
Meanwhile, our so-called government is in a panic to show that they are "doing something", even if it's absolutely the wrong thing. Not only are they misallocating our resources in a frantic effort to win the last war, they are doing such a laughable (as in: "laughing while you cry") job of even that.
It seems that the entire Transportation Security Administration is focused like a laser beam on little old ladies with knitting needles and New Zealand tourists who committed some minor infraction of some openly ignored regulation, while the terrorists who are certainly still among us are off somewhere far removed from airports planning new atrocities.
Unless Bush reverses what he has done - and soon - we will not have a for-profit airline industry in the United States. We will have a "State-Run Airline", like other socialist countries. (But they WILL run on time!)
I wonder what they will name the new airline - something patriotic, no doubt. I'm guessing it will contain the name "freedom" somewhere...
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