Posted on 08/09/2002 8:59:43 AM PDT by NYer
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Ten Americans and six foreigners were charged Friday with taking sexually explicit photographs of their own children or children in their care and sending them over the Internet to an international child pornography ring, the U.S. Customs Service said.
Forty-five children, including 37 in the United States, were victims and have been removed from the care of those indicted, Customs officials said. Most of them are in the custody of another parent or relative.
The defendants include nine people from seven states who were indicted in Fresno, Calif., along with six residents of Denmark, Switzerland and the Netherlands. The indictment alleges that members of the ring, referring to themselves as ``the club,'' traded messages across the Internet requesting photographs of specific sexual poses. One man asked for an audiotape so he could hear a child crying while being spanked, the indictment said, and another posed naked with an underage girl.
The Customs Service coordinated the U.S. investigation that began last November with a request for help from the Danish National Police, who were acting on a tip about an international child pornography ring. ``I congratulate the investigators whose ingenuity and perseverance brought these people to justice,'' Customs Commissioner Robert C. Bonner said in a statement.
The Americans charged include: Lloyd Alan Emmerson of Fresno County, Calif.; Paul Whitmore and Brooke Rowland, San Diego County, Calif.; Tracy Reynolds, Texas; Leslie Peter Bowcut, Idaho; Michael David Harland, Florida; Harry Eldon Tschernetzki, Washington state; John Zill, South Carolina; Craig Davidson, Kansas. The identity of the tenth American was not immediately available.
The foreigners were identified as Eggert Jensen and Bente Jensen of Denmark; Jean-Michael Frances Cattin, Marcel Egli and Peter Althaus of Switzerland; and Dirk-Jan Prins of the Netherlands.
On the Net: Customs Service: http://www.customs.ustreas.gov
AP-ES-08-09-02 1114EDT
Exactly. And they can only be there if they were put there.
Those scumbags who slip through the cracks need to see some vigilante justice.
#2, 'Consent' is a concept which has little meaning on an 11 year old boy. His 'consent' was influenced by the uncle or older male friend - his mind was not fully capable of deciding on his own. There is a reason why 18 is considered the legal age of adulthood for citizens - it is only after that point they are mature enough to make their own decisions and take one their own responsibilities.
#3, Moral standards and ethical values do not change. These are the fundamental building blocks of society - and you cannot assume that 're-thinking' these values will not have a disastrous impact on society. The last time a country 're-thought' its ethical values of human life, over 6 million Jews were slaughtered. "Revolutions" in moral principles usually end up in violence, death, and anarchy.
#1, Your assumption that we have 'accepted' the practive of homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuality itself is a biological deviance, and the behavior of sexual relations with the same sex a moral perversion.
#2, 'Consent' is a concept which has little meaning on an 11 year old boy. His 'consent' was influenced by the uncle or older male friend - his mind was not fully capable of deciding on his own. There is a reason why 18 is considered the legal age of adulthood for citizens - it is only after that point they are mature enough to make their own decisions and take one their own responsibilities.
#3, Moral standards and ethical values do not change. These are the fundamental building blocks of society - and you cannot assume that 're-thinking' these values will not have a disastrous impact on society. The last time a country 're-thought' its ethical values of human life, over 6 million Jews were slaughtered. "Revolutions" in moral principles usually end up in violence, death, and anarchy.
I don't disagree with the essence of your first point except to point out that while you, I and others have not accepted homosexuality per se - there is no question that our society in general has accepted and we are forced to live in context of it every day at one level or another. Our taxes certainly go towards promoting that lifestyle one way or the other.
In your second point - we've discussed this issue at length in this thread so I'd refer you to those discussions. My response is this - I agree that an 11 year old boy is not capable of making a decision based on informed consent on the issue of sex with someone his own age or adults. However, that does not keep others from believing that nor does it keep them from trying to find those who agree with them and promote their lifestyle.
And for your third point - I agree - moral standards and ethical values do not change but I would add that they do not change in context of their source. I would also agree that they are the fundamental building blocks of society but let us not forget that society, for reasons of expediency, can choose to reject those fundamentals. Your example of Hitler's Nazi Germany is a perfect example. Pardon me while I oversimplify the process of how Nazi Germany ended up where it was but essentially it's summed up with the notion that if you tell a lie often enough and long enough eventually people will believe it.
So my response is that I agree with your points. We're essentially on the same side - but my fear is that we'll let history repeat itself and the unthinkable will eventually become the thinkable.
Sure, until you accept the premise that you're an insect. :)
Exactly. And they can only be there if they were put there. - tex
Pious bull.
- The golden rule is reasoned, self evident truth. - The basis for all law and morals.
--- You don't want to be hurt? - Don't hurt others.
"Hurt" can be defined MANY different ways.
Exactly. Part of my point, that the golden rule is a basic truth.
Without God, one would have quite an argument that intergenerational sexual relationships are not harmful, at all, to the minor.
Yours is a bizarre idea. -- Why? What do YOUR ideas about god have to do with how ALL of us treat one another?
- Obviously 'we' do not want our children molested. - We've built up a code of laws, under a constitution, dealing with such matters.
-- Are you advocating some change in those rules & concepts?
Jeeze, tp ... we actually agree twice in the same week!
It is a simple common sense issue, because it is wrong. Just plain wrong. (You and I can argue about why it's wrong some other time....)
I think what's going on here is the same thing that seems to plague conservatives and libertarians against any number of liberal initiatives: we play by certain rules, and expect the other side to play by the same rules. And so we reason with them -- expecting that our "shared beliefs" will impel them to come to our conclusions.
But of course we do share the same beliefs with those for whom pedophilia (or whatever) is not necessarily a bad thing. We disagree, and our reasoned arguments do not sway them.
Now we come to the real crux of the issue: for whatever reason, we are loathe to "force" our point of view on the other side -- even for something so clearly wrong. And so, in order to get some resolution, we compromise. (The other side knows this, plays to it, and indeed counts on it.)
So even such "common sense" issues as pedophilia or child pornography become grounds for "reasoned debate," and instead of nailing up perverts by their genitals, we compromise with them.
All because we won't say "it's just plain wrong, and it's not allowed."
The golden rule is not at all self-evident. If it were truly self-evident, everybody would follow it. But in fact there are alternatives that have been proven to work as well, or maybe even better for those who can pull it off.
For example, I can also avoid getting hurt by becoming King, and killing or enslaving all who might harm me. If I'm a successful king, I can even pay people to do my dirty work for me. And even if one is not capable enough to be king, one can get very nearly the same effect (not being hurt) by being one of his loyal henchpeople.
No, only in your weirdo imaginings do you see yourself beating me. -- This is a symptom me-boyo. Get professional help.
Don't you think its time to put up the white flag before I call Roscoe and Dane?
They are as bad off mentally as you. - But hey, call in ALL your authoritarian socialist buddies. They're always good for a laugh.
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