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To: tpaine
- The golden rule is reasoned, self evident truth. - The basis for all law and morals. --- You don't want to be hurt? - Don't hurt others.

The golden rule is not at all self-evident. If it were truly self-evident, everybody would follow it. But in fact there are alternatives that have been proven to work as well, or maybe even better for those who can pull it off.

For example, I can also avoid getting hurt by becoming King, and killing or enslaving all who might harm me. If I'm a successful king, I can even pay people to do my dirty work for me. And even if one is not capable enough to be king, one can get very nearly the same effect (not being hurt) by being one of his loyal henchpeople.

238 posted on 08/10/2002 11:21:31 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
- The golden rule is reasoned, self evident truth. - The basis for all law and morals. --- You don't want to be hurt? - Don't hurt others.

The golden rule is not at all self-evident. If it were truly self-evident, everybody would follow it.

False reasoning. -- Reasonable, sane people do follow it. - Criminals do not.

But in fact there are alternatives that have been proven to work as well, or maybe even better for those who can pull it off.

You've made these same examples before. Criminal conduct is not an 'alternative' lifestyle.

For example, I can also avoid getting hurt by becoming King, and killing or enslaving all who might harm me. If I'm a successful king, I can even pay people to do my dirty work for me. And even if one is not capable enough to be king, one can get very nearly the same effect (not being hurt) by being one of his loyal henchpeople.

So? You're a criminal tyrant that dies in bed. Big deal.
-- Your example is just an absurd denial that the golden rule is a reasoned basis for morality, and needs no religion to justify its existence.

242 posted on 08/10/2002 12:01:39 PM PDT by tpaine
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