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To: jwalsh07
Unfortunately, not according to the definition predicated on the word "born".
5 posted on 08/05/2002 5:38:37 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
Unfortunately, not according to the definition predicated on the word "born".

Lorianne, I think you are confusing "citizens" ans persons. The 14th Amendment is from whence non citizens are granted rights under the Constitution.

Should not American babies in utero at least have the same rights as non citizens?

8 posted on 08/05/2002 5:43:56 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Lorianne
Unfortunately, not according to the definition predicated on the word "born".

As much as I'd like to say that the picture depicts a person...you can't argue with that kind of logic. Kudos.

149 posted on 08/05/2002 8:01:44 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Lorianne; jwalsh07
All persons born or naturalized in the United States...

Using this definition, "born" (and "naturalized") only refer to citizenship. In fact, this indicates that there can be persons that are not citizens because they are a) not born, b) not born in the US, or c) not naturalized.

This is hardly the best reference for identifying a "person" (requires odd, "reverse"-logic). The fact that the unborn child is an "individual" with its own distinct DNA that is unique from its mother is significant. To deny it is a distinct entity up until the second its head emerges is not only self-serving, but also heinous.

489 posted on 01/18/2003 7:34:26 PM PST by Optimist (Lets fill that glass full!)
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To: Lorianne; Bloody Sam Roberts
AMENDMENT 14 SECTION 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

For proper interpretation, one must separate the clauses found between the semicolons. The terms "Born" or "Naturalized" refers to citizenship. This Amendment prohibits the states from making laws which infringe on the rights of citizens. It ALSO prohibits the states from denying due process or equal protection to any PERSON notwithstanding their citizenship status.

If due process and equal protection were to apply only to citizens, the Amendment would read, in part: "nor shall any State deprive any citizen of the United States of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any citizen of the United States within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

So frankly, Sam, one CAN argue with this logic because it is incorrect.


534 posted on 11/12/2004 5:07:44 PM PST by GatorGirl (Four More Years!!!!)
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To: Lorianne
Unfortunately, not according to the definition predicated on the word "born".

Read more carefully. All persons born in the US are citizens. A separate statement is that no law shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Even if you are not a citizen the state cannot deprive you of life or liberty.

561 posted on 11/12/2004 7:15:34 PM PST by Naspino (Not creative enough to have a tagline.)
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To: Lorianne
...not according to the definition predicated on the word "born"

Actually, if you read carefully, that phrase is applied to persons, not citizens. The word "born" is part of the definition of a citizen, not a person.

574 posted on 11/12/2004 8:31:29 PM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.)
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To: Lorianne

No, that is the definition of "citizen" that is predicated on born, that is a citizen is a born person. It does not mean that a person must be born to be a person.


580 posted on 11/12/2004 8:44:05 PM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
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