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Smart Case, July 22, 2002
07/22/92 | Jolly Green

Posted on 07/21/2002 8:48:43 PM PDT by Jolly Green

Elizabeth Smart case for July 22, 2002


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: elizabethsmart; kidnapping; missing; ricci
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1 posted on 07/21/2002 8:48:43 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: Bella; brigette; IamHD; Paladin; Sherlock; HoHoeHeaux; Illbay; Neenah; sandude; Utah Girl; ...
Ping
2 posted on 07/21/2002 8:49:58 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: All
Jengaio had some ideas on yesterday's thread that we might stop all the bickering and actually use some of our time and talents to actually solve this case. The following table lists some of the theories. Add your own to the thread and I'll try to keep this updated:

Wild-Eyed Speculation, Half-baked Theories and Myths
Theory(?) Facts
Richard Ricci has been identified as the prime suspect in the case, though several of his "theme park" pals are under suspicion. - Ricci is a 5-time loser, having been convicted of burglarizing a food bank and shooting a police officer. He has recently been indicted on three additional state charges including theft at the Smart residence and burglary of a Smart neighbor. Additionally, he has been recently indicted on three federal charges related to two bank robberies.
- Ricci worked for the Smarts last year for several months and was paid with a white Jeep in lieu of cash. He had full access to the house and may very well have had a key to the Smart residence. Ricci and two others were fired when some items were stolen from the home. Ricci later approached Ed Smart and said he wasn't involved and wanted his job back. Ed Smart declined to rehire him.
- Ricci lives in a trailer park in West Jordan that is now referred to as a "theme park" because of the large number of Ricci convicted felon friends living there.
- Ricci has no credible alibi for the period during and shortly after the abduction. He is believed to have put an additional 1000 miles on the Jeep during a period when he claimed the Jeep was in Moul's shop.
- Ricci had both opportunity and motive.
Ed Smart and Richard Ricci were gay lovers. This is based upon Ed Smart's pleading before the media for Ricci to come clean, where he used phrases like "Help me, Richard". This theory was eloquently refuted by Jengaio and it hasn't reared its ugly head recently.
Elizabeth Smart had a nose ring, must have been rebellious and ran away. Later, proponents shifted emphasis to "piercings" so as not to offend those who believe this to be utter nonsense. Numerous photographs of Elizabeth Smart show no indication of a nose ring and the existence of a nose ring has never been reported by any credible news source.
Moul, the mechanic, lied to the grand jury and in TV interviews. Some of the scenarios: He knows more than he is telling; his eyesight is bad; he made it up; he is in cahoots with Ricci; he used Ricci's Jeep without Ricci's permission. Moul has no criminal record and no motive. What's more his vehicle logs corroborate his testimony.
Elizabeth Smart's aunt, in a televised interview said the police "are working with us". Implications: This surely must mean that the Smarts and their influential friends and church must be controlling/thwarting the 100-man SLCPD/FBI task force While this is "grasping" of the highest order, we will ask Jengaio to analyze the phrazing./td>

3 posted on 07/21/2002 8:59:17 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: All
Who believes this case will eventually be solved soon? or who thinks this will end up being another Jonbenet?

A few weeks ago I felt confident they were close to solving the case and the cops were just taking their time building a circumstantial case, but as the days go by I don't feel too confident. I feel the perp had time and did a good job of hiding the body and concealing evidence and was no amatuer like in the Runnion/Westerfield cases. I feel the girl is definately dead because the case is way too high profile and her face is just too recognizable (if her face were to be used in porn unless they concealed her face, the porn pics could lead straight to the kidnappers capture easily). I feel the risk of her being recognized would be too great for any kidnapper to keep her alive for pornography or prostitution purposes unless he just wanted to use her for himself and prepared a basement type hole like in the movie Silence of the Lambs so she had no way to escape or alert authorities.
4 posted on 07/21/2002 9:04:08 PM PDT by MadisonA
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To: MadisonA
I believe they are building an "air tight" case against Ricci and one or more of his associates. As you said, it is only circumstantial at this point, but hopefully that effort will produce hard evidence in the future.
5 posted on 07/21/2002 9:12:01 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: Jolly Green
where to begin...first off...you started out nicely but then slithered into having opinions show up under theories....lets just have the simple theory...not a discussion of its merits in that column

then, we are really short of facts....Ricci worked for two months didn't he,not "several months" yes that is picky I know...

Ricci has an "alibi" for the time period...the cops can not disprove it as of yet. so we should follow them about that.

who has seen Moul's logs?....Have the police stated that the logs are in order?....I don't think they have

6 posted on 07/21/2002 9:12:45 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Jolly Green
Post hole digger(s), plastic garbage bags, a machete or two (found or not), a 4-wheel drive muddy-to-the-windows Jeep with that many miles on it at one sitting, missing seat-covers, a small bunch of bad-time losers, and a SLIM missing young girl is not the equation that would not take an Einstein for gut-feeling conclusions, since no other set of directive circumstances are being publically considered.

Why is "slim" a truly sick factor?

Because young, fat, ugly female victims fit other "victim" profiles...more familial than revenge or sexual.
7 posted on 07/21/2002 9:17:42 PM PDT by Vidalia
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To: MadisonA
I too am very discouraged with this case....I can't quite come out and say they bungled it...it sure don't look good...

however....I am still somewhat optimistic that Lizzie is alive...don't ask me why I think that...its just a guess...but I think she was taken by an known entity and I think that perhaps the cops or the family might have an idea of who it is....but how to find them...

I would guess that all this publicity would really shoot up the price tag if somebody was to film Poor Lizzie being assualted...you can not imagine how evil people can be....it would be something these creeps would pay big money for....unfortunately....but Lizzie is still recoverable even if that has happened to her....

8 posted on 07/21/2002 9:19:16 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Jolly Green
Your "fact" column is loaded with judgmental words. Why not link to the Ricci/Smart loiver theory and its counterpoint (neither of which I have read) so readers can judge for themselves? Why not name sources instead of asserting they are not "credible"? The last row as it stands is useless, with a straw man and a plea for a future refutation.

Hope this helps.

9 posted on 07/21/2002 10:43:01 PM PDT by Plummz
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: 4ourprogeny
LE describe Moul's testimony credible. But, given the facts as reported by the media I say his testimony is less than credible. Anyone care to puch some holes into my theory?

What would be Moul's motivation for lying to LE? Stating that he is possibly part of Ricci's gang is supposition at this point.

11 posted on 07/21/2002 11:51:03 PM PDT by sandude
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To: 4ourprogeny
Re: witnesses, etc.
I was at a crowded beach the other day, hanging around the parking lot waiting for the relatives. In that 20 minutes or so I saw lots of people drive up and "remove items from their cars", but I'll bet no one else there would remember any particular arrival or departure because they were all busy - not sitting around with nothing to do because their relatives were late.
What I mean is a dozen people can be present at an event and have no lasting impression of it - weren't paying attention, stopped thinking about it the second it was over and therefore forgot about it entirely.
Afz
12 posted on 07/22/2002 5:18:09 AM PDT by anatolfz
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To: 4ourprogeny
It seems like they could verify his story with the phone records from the pay phone across the street. The police have not told us whether the phone records match his story or not.

At the least we could find out, who he called. I'm beginning to suspect there wasn't any phone call made during this time, since there hasn't been any follow up in the press.
13 posted on 07/22/2002 6:35:39 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict
It seems like they could verify his story with the phone records from the pay phone across the street. The police have not told us whether the phone records match his story or not. At the least we could find out, who he called. I'm beginning to suspect there wasn't any phone call made during this time, since there hasn't been any follow up in the press.

this is exactly why the police should clear the air at least in reguards to info that is either non-existant or of no relevance...all we have now is questions about every single facet of this case, and many people are doubting the investigation as a whole...

still would like to know if they have the phone call from across the street...would like to know about that van in Lincoln, etc..

14 posted on 07/22/2002 9:03:58 AM PDT by cherry
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To: Jolly Green
I hope it is ok that I re-post this from last night, cause I think it is important for those that missed it. This would anger me if it was the Washington Post or New York Times or anything. It is blatent censorship in any venue, and I think there should be OUTRAGE because of it.This is NOT speculation on a poster's part, but varified information redily available to the public. So it is FACT.

To: Jolly Green; Utah Girl

What background can you give us on this?

http://www.sltrib.com/07212002/opinion/opinion.htm

Vow of Silence

In the most recent federal court hearing concerning the ownership of The Salt Lake Tribune, several documents became newly public. Three of them make clear that the Deseret News used its influence to help Dean Singleton and MediaNews Group (MNG) acquire The Tribune. The News did so because Singleton agreed that if he gains control of The Tribune he will not allow critical or "disparaging" coverage of the News owner, the LDS Church.

The deal means the largest institution in the state, the LDS Church, would control the ownership, and all that involves, of the two largest newspapers in the state.

The first of the three documents is a two-page set of handwritten notes made by Deseret News General Manager Fred Temby at a Deseret News board meeting on July 12, 2000. The notes quote Deseret News Publishing Company Chairman L. Glen Snarr trying to sell his board on a plan to support a bid by MediaNews, Inc. (MNG) rather than continuing the News efforts to acquire The Tribune directly. According to the notes, Snarr tells his board that "Dean agrees: 1. Survival of 2 papers 2. Not disparage the church 3. Equal NAC treatment." (Newspaper Agency Corporation, or NAC, is jointly owned by The Tribune and News to handle printing, advertising sales and circulation of both newspapers.)

These three top goals became the sales pitch for Snarr and his advisers and were designed to convince the DNPC board and the First Presidency of the LDS Church, owner of the Deseret News, to support Singleton and MNG's bid to acquire The Tribune.

The second document is a report from Snarr to the First Presidency. It was written in late July of 2000, apparently after the First Presidency heard of Snarr and his advisers' pitch to the DNPC board to discontinue attempts to buy The Tribune and get Singleton and MNG to play the role of front man. The First Presidency was obviously upset with Snarr and his associates.

"We are sorry if we misunderstood your request on July 10 to prepare information on a possible bid to purchase The Tribune. We researched the matter carefully, on a number of possibilities, ranging from $175,000,000 to $250,000,000, and we struggled with a way to accomplish this without problems with the Justice Department," Snarr wrote to the leaders of the Mormon church.

"We think we had a way to do that, assure the survival of the Deseret News (which we thought was our No. 1 goal), end the Tribune negativity toward the Church, and provide for fair and efficient management of the NAC. We realize that the Church must weigh carefully its options in view of renewed threats of a lawsuit and negative comments about Dean Singleton." (About this time, Fortune magazine had written that Singleton was "the cheapskate of the publishing industry," in a very uncomplimentary article.)

Later in the memo, Snarr wrote that the church's plan to "buy The Tribune except for the voice . . .doesn't appear to be an option because we might end up in a lawsuit, in a secondary position to AT&T."

Then Snarr made his pitch to his owners to support the Singleton bid. "Singleton will take on the option agreement. If we tell him we won't sue if he buys The Tribune, he will sign an agreement outlining nearly everything we want."

A few weeks later, it appears, Snarr delivered a document to the First Presidency detailing exactly what it was Singleton had agreed to. The top three goals were still the same and Singleton and MNG agreed to embrace each of them.

"MediaNews, Inc. is committed to the survival and success of two newspaper voices in Salt Lake City, as is the Deseret News," Snarr wrote beside the first bullet point.

"MediaNews, Inc. does not allow its papers to disparage anyone or organization on religious, racial or ethnic grounds," Snarr wrote beside the second bullet point. Under that point he wrote, "The Tribune has a continuing history of snide, damaging stories, followed by expressions of regret."

The third point in the memo was that "With MediaNews, Inc. as a partner, the NAC will be operated fairly with equal treatment for both papers," Snarr wrote.

The goals of the News were and continue to be the same: 1. Survival of the News; 2. Change and/or eliminate the voice of The Tribune; 3. Get more say in the operation of NAC. These new documents make irrefutably clear Singleton has agreed to these goals.

Obviously, the News goal of changing the voice of The Salt Lake Tribune was the only goal the current manager of The Tribune refused to discuss. For 50 years, the managers of The Tribune and the Kearns McCarthey families have been committed to the survival of the News and have sat down each month with News leaders with equal representation to direct the operations of NAC.

This battle has always been about changing or killing the independent voice of The Salt Lake Tribune. Without court intervention, Singleton has announced he will step in Aug. 1 and begin delivering on his promises to the Deseret News. These newly released documents make perfectly clear that those promises include killing the true independence of The Tribune as it relates to coverage of the LDS Church.

Hundreds of readers of The Tribune have written, e-mailed or called the U.S. Department of Justice to express their concern over the potential loss of daily independent journalism in Salt Lake City. It is worth your time to do the same, particularly now with this irrefutable new evidence. The phone number at the Department of Justice is 1-888-647-3258 or 1-202-307-2040. The e-mail address is newcase.atr@usdoj.gov and the mailing address is 601 D Street NW, Suite 10011, Washington D.C., 20530.

281 posted on 7/22/02 10:37 AM Central by spore-gasm

Spore-gasm, I hope it is ok by you that I saw fit to re-post this.

15 posted on 07/22/2002 9:27:04 AM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah; spore-gasm
Thanks for re-posting this, Neenah.......and thanks for the original posting, spore-gasm. It certainly provides some valuable insights.
16 posted on 07/22/2002 9:33:56 AM PDT by freedox
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To: Neenah
neenah...I have been following this story but it really is all Greek to me....it is very incestuous though....but , except for the church angle...it happens in a lot of areas where one newspaper runs the town after eliminating the other.....

in my town, the one newspaper is owned by one rich family that has a lot of shennanigans with many lawsuits ongoing involving the SEC among others...finacial dealings that will cost my town millions and millions...involves sweet heart deals for the rich family

the rich family owned only -show -in- town newspaper is barely covering the story...when you are involved in deep doo-doo...its nice to own the paper to keep the local criticisms in check....

as long as they don't own local talk radio and the internet...the truth will always get out there

17 posted on 07/22/2002 10:01:46 AM PDT by cherry
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: cherry
Hi cherry...

The buying of a newspaper by any person or group is done all the time. And if it is owned by a person who is Republican or Democrat bent, they will more than not, present the news leaning toward their way of thinking. Not in all cases..but some.

However, the main thrust of this article is the blatent, admitted intent of CENSORSHIP of WHAT can be printed by the paper by all contributors. It reads:

The News did so because Singleton agreed that if he gains control of The Tribune he will not allow critical or "disparaging" coverage of the News owner, the LDS Church.

That should CHILL anyone who now has knowlege of it. That is why Brigette started another board. FR woudn't allow censorship, so a new web site was created with that very thing stated to any who sign up.

This is basically doing the same thing. I do draw the line in that I do feel it is wrong to get off on a theological debate on Mormonism vs. Christianity, but when you read what the proposal is for this newspaper, you have to wonder about seriously considering the validity of a religion who would not allow free speech.Scary stuff.

However, I do agree with the wrongness of people posting practices of the Mormon faith to degrade them. This forum is exclusively for discussing what you render from the news put forth by the press in this case. I hate to see it go off that track. However, no matter who it is that censor's a Newspaper given to the world (internet), I will fight against that.

19 posted on 07/22/2002 10:27:19 AM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah; spore-gasm; Utah Girl; All
"....the First Presidency of the LDS Church, owner of the Deseret News...."

Can anyone explain to me who or what the "First Presidency of the LDS Church" is? Does this refer to President Hinckley himself, or is this a broader group of church leaders?

20 posted on 07/22/2002 10:29:57 AM PDT by freedox
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