[spqrzilla9]

Weese is the loon. The International Darksky Association does not want to prevent you from illuminating your driveway. They want to prevent you from illuminating the sky. There is a difference. Efficient lighting that directs its light down on what should be illuminated is the key. Light that goes up into the sky does not help you see your way or discourage burglars.

[mvpel]

The city of San Jose and others in the south bay area have cooperated with the Lick Observatory on Mt. Hamilton to the east for decades, and have come to a very amiable and productive relationship. And even with a million and a half people living within sight of the observatory, and all the attendant street and house lighting, the Lick Observatory is leading the way in discovery of new planets, among other astronomical milestones.

The trick is the use of high-pressure sodium street lighting, the narrow yellowish spectrum of which can be easily filterd out by astronomers, as well as proper design of fixtures to direct light where it's needed, instead of wastefully scattering it in all directions.

I'll admit that the 5,500 lumen limit is a rather ridiculous proposal, as it's not the number of lumens but how they're used that makes the difference.

But this hyperbole about an "economic disaster zone" is considerably overwrought. Silicon Valley, until recently, was the economic engine of the nation, and still Lick Observatory was able to make breakthroughs in astronomical research.

[scooter2]

Well, this type of legislation will never fly in Las Vegas.

[IMRight]

That's my county.

The bad part about it is. We're pretty conservative here. Every single Republican candidate whose district includes Loudoun County won in Loudoun. All three statewide candidates all state House and Senate candidates and, of course, Bush. They all won Loudoun county handily. There is no Congressman or State representative representing our county who is not a Republican.

Yet at the county level we're swamped with liberals! This proposal is a crock.

[demlosers]

In truth, the only people who really are concerned about too much light at night are amateur astronomers and lovers out for a midnight walk.

I like the dark too. But not for the nut-case Environmental Wacko reasons.

[TheOtherOne]

It is pretty clear who the loonie is.

[hopespringseternal]

In April, Virginia Governor Mark Warner approved a new piece of statewide legislation that requires state facilities to use shielded outdoor lighting fixtures that emit no more than two percent of their light output above a horizontal plane. By 2004, the Virginia Department of Transportation must use such fixtures. As similar bill made its way through New York State's legislature, guided all the way by dark sky advocates and other environmental groups.

What a disaster. This will be a boon for those criminals gifted with flight, who swoop down from the now unlighted skys above street lights on their unsuspecting victims.

Get real. Personally, I would rather my taxes be used the light the ground where I walk, not the sky.

[1rudeboy]

This author would (apparently) argue that his property rights allow him to shine light on his neighbor's property. He is incorrect in the belief that the concept of regulating light pollution is somehow "anti-property." The determination of whether something is or is not light pollution falls under nuisance law which, as a legal concept, is practically as old as the concept of a property "right" itself.

[SengirV]

I just moved back to Loudoun county and I can not agree more with the newlight polution laws. I grew up in Pennsylvania and I remember looking up at the sky at night and being able to see the little dipper and the Milky Way across the entire sky. Now you are lucky to see maybe 100 stars in the sky, That is simply wrong. No one is telling you that you can't illuminate your house or walkway, they are saying to possition the light so that the light shines on the ground not up in the sky. There are special exceptions when it comes to Christmas lighting, so don't get so hysterical. If you live in Loudoun county I invite you to take a drive down East Juniper Lane in Sterling this Christmas and look at the amazing light show. It will be there again this year like all the previous years. It's just that this year, the lights will have to go out at 11PM. My God the horror!!!!!

[discostu]

Geeze, we already argued this over the weekend. There is such a thing as light polution. In places that have light laws there has been no increase in crime or decrease in night commerce. And 5500 lumens is a lot. 4000 lumens is those "oh my God it's noon" uber floods. I live right next to the big Christmas light festival in Tucson (which was an early adopter of light laws at the behest of Kitt Peak) and I seriously doubt if all the houses in the neighborhood together muster up 5500 lumens (just don't see a lot of Christmas displays stacking up a bunch of uber floods). So anybody that thinks this will outlaw Christmas lights is just being silly.

[GovernmentShrinker]

How the heck is a regulation prohibiting lighting up the night sky well ABOVE the Taco Bell going to have a "devastating impact" on its business? Some anti-environmentalists are even loonier than the looniest environmentalists. Maybe DeWeese and the Taco Bell manager and their buddies should protest by climbing up the poles of soon-to-be-illegal upward-aiming lights, and refusing to come down, daring the local governments to cut down the light-poles. That way they could save the forest of inefficient lights from being turned into an "economic disaster zone". Yeah, that would make sense. And then all the local businesses could continue to waste their money competing with each other to have the tallest, brightest signs (just $25,000 for the Citgo station, and that doesn't include the electric bills to run it -- and we wonder why the price of gas is so high).

[cogitator]

No such thing as light pollution?

Click on the little picture above to see the bigger version. This image has been on Free Republic before, but it's illustrative of just how much light is generated in urban areas.

[steve in DC]

The Government should alwys begin by impacting those things they can, before they seek to impact their "free" citizens.

For example, Loudoun County should first begin impacting this "light pollution problem" by turning off all street lights. The streetlights are the county's and they can turn them off it they like.

Then they can listen to the important feedback from the citizens and decide whether this light pollution stuff is worth losing their jobs over, or not.

[RonF]

Bump.

[RonF]

Many fine replies on here. But, to reiterate:

1) No one wants to stop you from illuminating your property. They want to stop you from illuminating something that isn't your property.

2) Use of proper light fixtures and fittings can actually improve property lighting and security, with lower electrical costs.

3) Dark-sky legislation generally points at new installations, not forcing replacement of existing fixtures.

4) The concept that this is some kind of conspiracy to enable criminals is truly paranoid and indicative that the proponent thereof has a slim grip on reality.

And yes, I am an amateur astronomer. I am also a Scouter, and a counselor for Astronomy Merit Badge. I reside, as do the Scouts in our Troop, in the Chicago suburbs. It's always interesting to take the blase and sophisticated junior high and high school kids out to somewhere that has a dark sky. I get all kinds of wonder-filled questions that they're normally way too cool to ask. The double-take you see from a kid whose spent his whole life in the 'burbs and sees a dark sky for the first time is priceless.

[RonF]

To read some articles that are based on actual facts, instead of paranoid ramblings, please go here. Sky and Telescope is a magazine for amateur astronomers that (understandably) keeps a close eye on this issue. You might also want to look here, at the International Darksky Association's web site. I have a next-door neighbor that thinks he needs a floodlight above his front door that not only illuminates his front yard, but my front yard and my bedroom windows. I've fantasized solving the problem with my .22. It's ridiculous. And unnecessary. And incredibly wasteful.

[gcruse]

 
     Let us begin with the understanding that
there is no such thing as "light pollution,"

Having moved back to Texas from
various locations on the West Coast,
all I have to do is look up at night
to know the above statement is a crock.
When the only stars you can see at
night year round add up to about
twenty, you just may have light
pollution.

[Tourist Guy]

bump for later read

[RightWhale]

The author of this article is off the beam and coming in for a landing in the swamp. Int Dark Sky has nothing to do with the godless greenies.

[strela]

Bump for later. Meesa got a meeting.