Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Who's to blame for the stock market's decline? (POLL)
CNN.com ^ | July 15, 2002 | CNN

Posted on 07/16/2002 7:28:31 AM PDT by sandlady

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:00:51 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bias; cnn; opinionpoll; stockmarket
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-85 next last
To: sandlady
I just emailed Mr. Dobbs a scathing note! I encourage ALL OF YOU to do the same. If the pubbies at the Hill won't help in this time of crisis it's up to us to lead the CHARGE against THESE ANIMALS! I HATE THE MEDIA WHORES AND LIBERAL RATS, they are pure VOMIT FROM HELL!! CCCHHHAARRRGGGEEEEEE!!! OBTW, be sure to point out that American still regard them as the CLINTON NEWS NETWORK, this will get their panties and boxer shorts all in a twist!
41 posted on 07/16/2002 8:14:09 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
Who's to blame for the stock market's decline?

Clinton, Greenspan and Rubin for creating an artificial boom-economy that was unsustainable. They created a money/debt-bubble that, as all bubbles do, burst--go bust.

Right now, it is impossible to know if the overprojections made by executives at WorldCom were the result of deliberate fraud or simply came about because of boom-induced calculations. Everyone now knows that those calculation were in gross error, yet under the conditions that existed because of the Fed-caused artificial boom, WorldCom’s projections might very well have been reasonable. Congress, Accounting, and the Free Market (McCain is grandstanding again)

Just as politicians and bureaucrats have the gall of pointing their fingers at Enron, WorldCom etc, -- taking the "high road" when the government is by far the champion at cooking the books -- they would expect WorldCom guilty of following government bureaucrats destructive lead -- it was politician and bureaucrats irrational exuberance that lead the charge. The trio of Clinton, Greenspan and Rubin lead the charge followed by the unsuspecting business community and investing public.

The irony is that putting money in the stock market is speculation. Investment instruments or vehicles are savings accounts, guaranteed certificate of deposits (CDs), savings bonds and annuities -- if a person wants to speculate there's the commodities and futures markets, FOREX currency markets and stock markets. To name a few of each.

In terms of freedom of investment-and-speculation information the government has always held an oppressive and protectionist relationship with the financial and speculation markets as well as with the individual investors and speculators. Information about foreign investment instruments and speculation markets is basically non-existent in the United States. That's not because they're undesirable, for many lucrative off-shore opportunities do exist, rather, it's because the government controls an unfair market advantage against the people and their business community. Speculative and investment instruments are not advertised in the U.S..

That does not mean those projections were a good thing, given the conditions of the boom. Credit-induced booms are unsustainable, and someone must ultimately pay the piper. Congress, Accounting, and the Free Market (McCain is grandstanding again)

We had businesses that had no choice but to compete amongst themselves in an artificial boom. We had close to one hundred million investors that were in effect, speculating in markets. ...Speculating in markets orchestrated by the Clinton/Greenspan/Rubin trio's bubble-debt economy bound to protectionists' financial-market oversight was a sure to be followed by a proportionately-sized bust.

The unmitigated gall of politicians and bureaucrats to be blaming the business community and yanking on inventors bruised-emotional chains -- intentionally adding fuel to the fire -- encouraging them to call for "lynchings".

The government is not the solution, it is the problem! Ceaselessly creating a never-ending array of problems that need not exist in the first place.

The Genie is Out of the Bottle.

Congress has created so many laws that virtually every person is assured of breaking more than just traffic laws. Surely with all this supposed lawlessness people and society should have long ago run head long into destruction. But it has not.

Instead, people and society have progressively prospered. Doing so despite politicians creating on average, 3,000 new laws each year which self-serving alphabet-agency bureaucrats implement/utilize to justify their usurped power and unearned paychecks. They both proclaim from on high -- with complicit endorsement from the media and academia -- that all those laws are "must-have" laws to thwart people and society from self-destruction.

Again, despite not having this year's 3,000 must-have laws people and society increased prosperity for years and decades prior. How can it be that suddenly the people and the society they form has managed to be so prosperous for so long but suddenly they will run such great risk of destroying their self-created prosperity?

The government is the all time champion of cooking the books and it has the gall to point fingers at the whole business community because of a few bad apples. The entire business community and employees that support it should stand tall against a government feigning to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books.

If there was ever a prime example of the fox guarding the hen house it is the government claiming to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books. President Bush will have to militarily smash down terrorism. For that is his job. It's not the President's, congress or' the government's job to manipulate the economy.

The business community with their employees will have to stand tall against the PC-status-quo fox -- self-proclaimed authorities claiming/feigning they'll use the government to protect the little guy and a complicit media and academia that supports them; for they are all the fox -- to regain their rightful place as the champions of honest business that has always increased the well-being of people.

The government, having already manipulated the economy to almost no-end, President Bush can play the unbeatable five-ace hand of replacing the threat-of-force IRS and graduated income tax with a don't-pay-the-tax-if-you-don't-want-to consumption tax. For example, implement the proposed national retail sales tax (NRST). Not only would that win votes for Bush and republicans in congress it would boom the economy.

Where will it lead?

War of Two Worlds
Value Creators versus Value Destroyers

Politics is not the solution. It's the problem!

The first thing civilization must have is business/science. It's what the family needs so that its members can live creative, productive, happy lives. Business/science can survive, even thrive without government/bureaucracy.

Government/bureaucracy cannot survive without business/science. In general, business/science and family is the host and government/bureaucracy is a parasite.

Aside from that, keep valid government services that protect individual rights and property. Military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a capitalist market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to the people and society -- which there are but a few -- could better serve the people by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

Wake up! They are the parasites. We are the host. We don't need them. They need us.

* * *

After all, in calling for the resignation of Securities and Exchange Commissioner Harvey Pitt, McCain declares, “Government’s demands for corporate accountability are only credible if government executives are held accountable as well." Does that mean U.S. senators? Congress, Accounting, and the Free Market (McCain is grandstanding again)

"Too often, we have cooked the books, exploited off-balance sheet accounting, fudged budget numbers and failed to disclose fully the nation's assets and liabilities. If we in Washington are to have credibility in the public eye as we address the corporate accounting mess, we must reform our own fiscal practices," said McCain. Social Security Called A Bigger Fraud Than Corporate Scandals

Prove it first. It's not like it's a new discovery or problem. It's a seventy-year-old problem. It's just that now politicians and bureaucrats have trapped themselves and the general public is becoming increasingly aware. They've been caught and McCain is getting interview time to peddle gussied-up compassionate government.

"Allowing Americans to invest responsibly a small part of their payroll taxes will not only save Social Security, but will provide them with greater retirement income than those who no or will soon depend on Social Security checks," said McCain. Social Security Called A Bigger Fraud Than Corporate Scandals

Notice McCain so readily wants himself and government to allow Americans to invest part of their own money. But he has a condition; it most be done responsibly. And who decides what is responsible? Certainly not the all-time champion, cook-the-books bureaucrats and snake-oil-salesmen politicians.

The are running citizens and society headlong into destruction.

42 posted on 07/16/2002 8:15:29 AM PDT by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
What do you think?

Stupid people are everywhere.

43 posted on 07/16/2002 8:15:57 AM PDT by Fzob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fzob
Start freepin this poll! I voted corporate america because it was the only rational choice!
44 posted on 07/16/2002 8:18:23 AM PDT by Pharmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Fzob
Yes--but did you vote?
45 posted on 07/16/2002 8:18:49 AM PDT by sandlady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Fzob
Stupid people are everywhere.

Actually, make that "stupid people are everywhere in the Dumbocrat Party"

46 posted on 07/16/2002 8:19:37 AM PDT by RooRoobird14
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
SIMPLE!!!! The investors that are SELLING!
47 posted on 07/16/2002 8:22:28 AM PDT by PISANO
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmer
COM'ON FOLKS, I know we can OUT poll those rats who are voting for our president! LET'S FREEP THIS FUDGING POLL!! This is crucial! VOTE! FREEP, WHATEVER IT TAKES, DO IT!
48 posted on 07/16/2002 8:23:18 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: RooRoobird14
Created: Mon Jul 15 15:57:00 EDT 2002

Who's to blame for the stock market's decline:

President Bush 51% 1174 votes

Congress 5% 114 votes

Corporate America 32% 729 votes

The media 13% 295 votes

Total: 2312 votes

49 posted on 07/16/2002 8:23:36 AM PDT by sandlady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
How absurd to blame Bush. Of course, CNN had a banner across the screen this morning announcing that the market has fallen 695 points since Bush addressed the country - I guess we know who THEY blame - the weenies!
50 posted on 07/16/2002 8:25:36 AM PDT by austingirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
CLINTON
51 posted on 07/16/2002 8:28:27 AM PDT by fred flinch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
I voted even though it's stupid.

Bear markets happen. Not only that, but PEs for the S&P500 were over 40 by the end of June. Historically (for 200 years), they have been at about 14. One could make an argument for slightly higher PEs in light of the fact that interest rates are at historic lows, so PEs could be somewhat higher... but not 40.

Down it will go. The Clinton Bubble is bursting. Nobody can stop it. Nobody should. The Nikkei is down 70% from it's bubble peak.

"Technicians" bid up this bubble hoping to sell out to some greater fool. They defined the peak - ignoring fundamentals and monitoring the madness of the crowd. Now the bottom will be defined by "fundamentals". Income. PE ratios of 14. Not 40.

The thing that kills me about all of this is CNN. Last night one of their news nitwits gleefully described the decline in the stockmarket as an expression of a lack of confidence in Bush. The media is trying to pin this on him. Sadly, people are stupid enough to believe it. He's as good as convicted. Better attack Saddam, quick!

52 posted on 07/16/2002 8:33:26 AM PDT by Bon mots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
How about the stupid investors? People who react to the market on a day to day basis deserve to lose their shirts. The market is a long term investment tool not a daily poker game.
53 posted on 07/16/2002 8:35:08 AM PDT by gunshy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gunshy
I don't know if they're stupid but it seems like the game now isn't to find a company and invest in it hoping to make a nice profit in 20 years but instead to watch the graphs, wait until you think they peak --sell, watch the graphs to see when they bottom out ---buy, and on and on. I would do it I guess if I had time to do it.
54 posted on 07/16/2002 8:37:35 AM PDT by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Timesink
Why not email Lou Dobbs and ask him why his site's poll is so biased, missing the Clinton, Rubin, etc choices?

A nice idea, i'll drop him a word.

55 posted on 07/16/2002 8:41:01 AM PDT by demlosers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
Clinton and Ruben are the chief problems (not to mention some of the brokerage houses). Won't come out until after the November elections though.
56 posted on 07/16/2002 8:43:54 AM PDT by exzoomie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gunshy
How about the stupid investors? People who react to the market on a day to day basis deserve to lose their shirts. The market is a long term investment tool not a daily poker game.

Agreed. Historically, dollar cost averaging nets the best results. Consistency and longevity are key.

57 posted on 07/16/2002 8:44:37 AM PDT by sandlady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: sandlady
The Press
58 posted on 07/16/2002 8:45:35 AM PDT by shadowman99
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #59 Removed by Moderator

To: sandlady
Created: Mon Jul 15 15:57:00 EDT 2002

Who's to blame for the stock market's decline:

President Bush 50% 1178 votes

Congress 5% 114 votes

Corporate America 32% 737 votes

The media 13% 308 votes

Total: 2337 votes

Improving....

60 posted on 07/16/2002 8:46:27 AM PDT by sandlady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-85 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson