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Man or Gorilla? Scientist Questions Skull Theory
Reuters ^ | Fri Jul 12,10:29 AM ET | John Chalmers

Posted on 07/12/2002 8:56:17 AM PDT by Junior

PARIS (Reuters) - A prehistoric skull touted as the oldest human remains ever found is probably not the head of the earliest member of the human family but of an ancient female gorilla, a French scientist said on Friday.

Brigitte Senut of the Natural History Museum in Paris said certain aspects of the skull, whose discovery in Chad was announced on Wednesday, were actually sexual characteristics of female gorillas rather than indications of a human character.

Two other French experts cast doubt on the skull as Michel Brunet, head of the archeological team that discovered it, was due to present his findings at a news conference at Poitiers in western France.

A self-confessed heretic amid the hoop-la over the skull, which dates back six or seven million years, Senut said its short face and small canines merely pointed to a female and were not conclusive evidence that it was a hominid.

"I tend toward thinking this is the skull of a female gorilla," she told Reuters in an interview. "The characteristics taken to conclude that this new skull is a hominid are sexual characteristics.

"Moreover, other characteristics such as the occipital crest (the back of the neck where the neck muscles attach)...remind me much more of the gorilla," she said, saying older gorillas also had these characteristics.

So little is known about the distant period of history represented by the skull that one scientist who has seen it told Nature magazine the discovery would have the impact of a "small nuclear bomb" among students of human evolution.

The London-based journal broke the news on Wednesday.

SHORT FACE, SMALL TEETH

The skull, discovered last year by an international team of palaeoanthropologists, has been nicknamed "Toumai," the name usually given in the central African country to children who are born close to the dry season.

Ten million years ago the world was full of apes and it was not until five million years later that the first good records of hominids -- or members of the human family, distinct from chimpanzees and other apes -- appeared.

Senut contested the theory that Toumai represented the missing link of human evolution between the two benchmarks.

The skull's braincase is ape-like, the face is short and the teeth, especially the canines, are small and more like those of a human.

But she said these were characteristics of female gorillas and cited the case of a skull which was discovered in the 1960s and accepted for 20 years as that of a hominid before everyone agreed that it was a female.

French media have reported extensively on the skull, not least because it came to light after years of digging through the sand dunes of northern Chad by Brunet, a Frenchman from the University of Poitiers.

Despite the national pride, Senut was not the only French scientist to raise questions about the hominid theory.

Yves Coppens of the College of France told the daily Le Figaro that the skull had an ambiguous shape, with the front looking pre-human and the back like that of a large monkey.

"The exact status of this new primate is not yet certain," he said. "Michel Brunet believes it is a pre-human, other respected palaeoanthropologists...see it as one side of the big primitive monkeys. "Others suggest a shared ancestry before the divide between hominids and monkeys took hold."

His colleague at the same institution, Pascal Picq, suggested that chemical research to establish Toumai's diet or a reconstruction of the skull by computer imaging could determine whether it was man or monkey, though for him it was "pre-human."

But no one contests the significance of the discovery.

"Even if it is a big monkey, it's even more interesting," Coppens said. "Because until now, in the genealogy of monkeys, there is a big missing link stretching over millions of years."


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: crevolist; earlyman; godsgravesglyphs; skull
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Ah, the self-correcting nature of science...
1 posted on 07/12/2002 8:56:17 AM PDT by Junior
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To: *crevo_list; PatrickHenry; VadeRetro; JediGirl; Condorman; Gumlegs; longshadow; jennyp; Scully; ...
Bump.
2 posted on 07/12/2002 8:57:23 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior
Neither is correct. It is actually from an early member of the DNC...
3 posted on 07/12/2002 9:03:09 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: Junior

4 posted on 07/12/2002 9:09:28 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Junior
Hush! The evolutionists will believe nothing that doesn't support their theory.
5 posted on 07/12/2002 9:14:02 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: pabianice
Probably still on the active voter rolls in Palm Beach County, too.
6 posted on 07/12/2002 9:14:52 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: Junior
Hee hee! Jumping to conclustions is so frequently embarrassing! And then we have the press who are so eager to follow right along.
7 posted on 07/12/2002 9:17:48 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Junior
That was fast. Usually it takes months for these new "hominids" to be revealed as bogus. The Ramapithicus/Sivapithicus debacle of the 80s comes to mind. A new "human ancestor" was found (so-called Sivapithicus) which a year later was conclusively shown to be an extinct species of orangutan (ramapithicus).

Evolutionists are such sheeple.

8 posted on 07/12/2002 9:23:49 AM PDT by far sider
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To: far sider
What the hell are you talking about? If anything, this story shows that evolutionists (ONCE AGAIN) test their theories, publish them in peer reviewed journals, and are subject to questions and more testing! That would make them the opposite of "sheeple."

Unlike your (I'm supposing here, but fairly so) childish creationism fairy tale which has yet to have a single theory tested, published in a peer review journal, or subjected to questions or more testing.

this "debate" is an embarrassment to me as a conservative American. I'd like to know when being a Conservative meant abandoning science. Ugh.

sorry for my anger, but these threads always fire me up.
9 posted on 07/12/2002 9:31:47 AM PDT by whattajoke
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To: Junior
Ah, the self-correcting nature of science...

The fact that he didn't recognize it as a female gorilla merely suggests that Mr. Brunet is more likely a breast or leg man, and not a face man....

10 posted on 07/12/2002 9:36:50 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Junior
It doesn't matter. Within a few years they will have constructed an entire skeleton to go with this skull and it will appear on the inside flap foldout of your kid's sixth grade science book on a timeline chart with twelve other immaginary creatures PROOVING man came from monkeys.
11 posted on 07/12/2002 9:37:06 AM PDT by mercy
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Hush! The evolutionists will believe nothing that doesn't support their theory.

What in the article doesn't support evolution? If anything, it supports evolution by showing that it corrects itself (as does any theory) when evidence demands it.

12 posted on 07/12/2002 9:37:31 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: Junior
Man or Gorilla?

I thought this thread was going to solve the ongoing confusion regarding Janet Reno.

13 posted on 07/12/2002 9:38:05 AM PDT by dead
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I'm an evolutionist.
14 posted on 07/12/2002 9:41:26 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior
heehee, i was laughing to myself about that....
15 posted on 07/12/2002 9:42:42 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: far sider
That was fast. Usually it takes months for these new "hominids" to be revealed as bogus.

It depends on whose ox is being gored. In this case Mr. Brunet was challenging the status quo. In the case of Sivapithicus, it served the status quo IIRC, and was thus accepted without much question.

16 posted on 07/12/2002 9:45:04 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Junior
French media have reported extensively on the skull

That raised my suspicions just a notch. A lot of French science is very good, very advanced. But now and then they discover N-rays. Of course, we have our cold fusion to point to with pride.

17 posted on 07/12/2002 9:45:15 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: far sider
Then, given stratigraphic superposition, and cross-cutting relationships, with no human fossils detected as early, these hominids preceded Man's appearence.
18 posted on 07/12/2002 9:53:08 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Junior
Of course it's not a human ancestor. The tip-off was that they talk about it being millions of years old when we all know that the Earth is only approx 6,000 years old.

The nerve of some people...

(/sarcasm off)

19 posted on 07/12/2002 10:07:26 AM PDT by gdani
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To: Junior
Ah, of course. "When we're right, we're right. When we're wrong, we're right."
20 posted on 07/12/2002 10:13:29 AM PDT by Taliesan
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