White Supremacists to March Through Georgia Town

Reuters ^

[AdamSelene235]

But on 9/11 our Country changed therefore changing the way we perceive the rest of the World. That's not our fault, it's theirs.

This is a security problem not an immigration problem.

[AdamSelene235]

What is with you left wingers.

I'm not left wing.

First of all, you don't even know the story of the Emma Lazarus poem, and how they statue of liberty had nothing to do with immigration.

I'd put the concrete positive results of the American system, particularly the results of immigration in the early 1900's ahead of the poet's intent.

I wonder if many of you think about what you're actually saying. I have a feeling that many of you are taken back by the talk of a racist organization, so you, unfortunately, allow it to cloud the reality of illegal immigration.

I wonder if you are thinking about what you are saying. I haven't said a word about racism. I can certainly distinguish between a racist arguement and anti-immigration arguement.

Sheesh.

[swarthyguy]

Very well put. Frankly, who gives a *&*&& about these yahoos. They can march all they want and claim their superirority.

Also, one item about European immigration or the lack thereof; very few Europeans want to migrate to America anymore. America would be happy to welcome Europeans if they wanted to come here; at least Western Europeans are not knocking on the doors of US Embassies in any great numbers.

Plus, instead of venting anger at the illegals, go after the corporations that hire them. No one attacks them.
Nail the corporatistas and you have a different situation.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I've known four illegal aliens, three of them quite well, over the years and not one of them asked for assistance or was in a gang.

So you associate with criminals. I once new a petty thief that was a nice guy.

My point is, regardless if you feel that illegal aliens don't seek assistance, or belong to gangs, the point is they are criminals that spit on our sovereignty, break our laws and invade our country. In my opinion, that makes them as bad as a any gang member.

If I were you, I would quit associating with criminals, as that makes you as bad as them.

But thanks for your ID. I appreciate it.

[constitutiongirl]

You chose Cubans to hold up as an example of an ill-effect of illegal immigration, you chose the wrong group. I think your numbers are exaggerated also. US policy regarding Cuban immigrants is different than policy regarding others. Even in the original exodus, many of those people (business leaders, doctors, other professionals) had already obtained US visas and some were even invited here. Remember that most of those actually flew into an airport, they didn't come by boat. Once here, they started the process of 'political refuge'. Once the US administration stabbed them in the back and didn't back up the exiles on the Bay of Pigs, only then did they settle down to stay here. Investing their money in Miami and not sending it back overseas. It's virtually impossible for a Cuban to be an illegal immigrant if they make it to shore...if they're caught at sea, they're returned to Cuba.

[paltz]

Groups like National Alliance don't really care about the problems illegal immigration creates as such. They are just using the issue to gather supporters for their anti-Christian, anti-America agenda.

Are these the same guys who had respect for the the 9/11 terrorists, because of the death and destruction they caused in the country?

[GreenEggsHam]

I've known four illegal aliens, three of them quite well, over the years and not one of them asked for assistance or was in a gang.
So you associate with criminals. I once new a petty thief that was a nice guy.

My point is, regardless if you feel that illegal aliens don't seek assistance, or belong to gangs, the point is they are criminals that spit on our sovereignty, break our laws and invade our country. In my opinion, that makes them as bad as a any gang member.

If I were you, I would quit associating with criminals, as that makes you as bad as them.

But thanks for your ID. I appreciate it.
+++++
Yes, Joe, I have *known* some criminals in my lifetime. You chose to replace "known" with "associate with" (note verb tense), thereby implying and then later stating your fear that I therefore *am* a criminal. Are you saying that everyone you've ever known has never broken a law? My my. That would be a pretty strong statement, wouldn't it? If this is true, then please let me know. I'm curious to know if this is possible. I'm not sure what you mean by "thanks for your ID"...please explain.

[FreedomFriend]

Well, that's because the number of immigrants that the U.S. now admits are off the cataclysmic scale. If the U.S. went back to traditional numbers of 100,000 per year, European newcomers could represent the bulk. There are nearly that many coming to the U.S. every year.

[HELLRAISER II]

I beg to differ with you Adam, part of our Security is our immigration policy.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Yes, Joe, I have *known* some criminals in my lifetime. You chose to replace "known" with "associate with" (note verb tense)bla bla

Actually lets look at what you actually said:

I've known four illegal aliens, three of them quite well, over the years

Three of them quite well.

This is a pretty clear statement. A smoking gun if you will...

Are you saying that everyone you've ever known has never broken a law?

No offense, but this is a dumb statement. I don't make it a habit of asking the people in my work and life if they have a past criminal record. But I can assure you, I don't know "three illegal aliens quite well". Even if I did, I would never admit it. LOL!

[Under the Radar]

FreedomFriend, you might want to check out this recent article in the Atlantic Monthly:

"...When I first looked at it, I thought I must be seeing a model of a community full of racists. I assumed, that is, that each agent wanted to live only among neighbors of its own color. I was wrong. In the simulation I've just described, each agent seeks only two neighbors of its own color. That is, these "people" would all be perfectly happy in an integrated neighborhood, half red, half blue. If they were real, they might well swear that they valued diversity. The realization that their individual preferences lead to a collective outcome indistinguishable from thoroughgoing racism might surprise them no less than it surprised me and, many years ago, Thomas Schelling.

"In the same connection, look at Figure 2. This time the agents seek only one neighbor of their own color. Again the simulation begins with a random distribution (Frame 1). This time sorting proceeds more slowly and less starkly. But it does proceed. About a third of the way through the simulation, discernible ethnic clusters have emerged (Frame 2). As time goes on, the boundaries tend to harden (Frames 3 and 4). Most agents live in areas that are identifiably blue or red. Yet these "people" would be perfectly happy to be in the minority; they want only to avoid being completely alone. Each would no doubt regard itself as a model of tolerance and, noticing the formation of color clusters, might conclude that a lot of other agents must be racists.

"Schelling's model implied that even the simplest of societies could produce outcomes that were simultaneously orderly and unintended: outcomes that were in no sense accidental, but also in no sense deliberate. "The interplay of individual choices, where unorganized segregation is concerned, is a complex system with collective results that bear no close relation to the individual intent," he wrote in 1969. In other words, even in this extremely crude little world, knowing individuals' intent does not allow you to foresee the social outcome, and knowing the social outcome does not give you an accurate picture of individuals' intent. Furthermore, the godlike outside observer—Schelling, or me, or you—is no more able to foresee what will happen than are the agents themselves. The only way to discover what pattern, if any, will emerge from a given set of rules and a particular starting point is to move the pennies around and watch the results..."

[HELLRAISER II]

Perhaps Cubans aren't the best example to use, however it's one that I remember because I lived in Florida. But in all honesty, I might not remember everything because I was only 14 or 15 years old. I don't have a problem with Cubans, I just have a problem with illegal immigrants period whether their Afghani's, African, Mexican, Nicaraguan it makes no difference to me. All i'm saying is that we need to cut the faucet off and send these people back to their own country where we are not obligated to take care of them.

[GreenEggsHam]

Actually lets look at what you actually said:

I've known four illegal aliens, three of them quite well, over the years

Three of them quite well.
+++
This is a pretty clear statement. A smoking gun if you will...
+++
That's probably because you're quick to assume something bad about me in an effort to bolster your own argument which is not based on logic, but rather assumptions. One comes to know many different types of people in their lives. Some of them quite well. Not all people I know "quite well" in my life do I like or even respect. Not all people I know "quite well" in my life do I wish I even knew.
++++
Are you saying that everyone you've ever known has never broken a law?

No offense, but this is a dumb statement. I don't make it a habit of asking the people in my work and life if they have a past criminal record. But I can assure you, I don't know "three illegal aliens quite well". Even if I did, I would never admit it. LOL!
++++
It wasn't a statement Joe, it was a challenge to the "logic" you were using when you chose to make what was a civil debate a personal attack on me. Otherwise known as a rhetorical question. I believe you when you say you would never admit it. Quel surprise.

[Don Myers]

"I wonder if our resident Buchanan supporting Freepers will be there? Or maybe the Islam Bashers can branch-out for a fun weekend..."

If you were there, what kind of sign would you be holding?

[FreedomFriend]

In other words, even in this extremely crude little world, knowing individuals' intent does not allow you to foresee the social outcome, and knowing the social outcome does not give you an accurate picture of individuals' intent

While this may be true, at least in a number of cases, the overall trends and intent are obvious. However, they have nothing to do with racism, but merely personal preference.

I don't understand why people try to make this more difficult than it is. This is common sense, and it is something that everybody knows. People avoid diversity, for the most part. Like I said, this occurs everywhere. While some places are more diverse than others, the overall trend remains the same. I imagine that someone make take what I'm saying out of context, even though it's apparent as day is to night.

This is the reason that I am skeptical about current immigration. You have obvious history, trends, effects, etc. I don't think that it takes a rocket scientist to figure it out.

[constitutiongirl]

Cutting the faucet off...I agree wholeheartedly. If I'm guessing your age correctly, I'd say you were talking about the Mariel boat-lift Cubans. You wouldn't believe how many established Cubans were embarrassed by them and wouldn't have anything to do with them. I had one cousin that came over then (his father died in a labour camp) and he was detained for nearly a year while the US gov't sorted out whether he was criminal or political. I know only 2 Mariels that my father became friendly with and they were both musicians that had been imprisoned because of anti-Revolution tendicies. One now owns a restaurant and the other a night club. I personally don't know any Cubans on the dole and I saw some statistics (back during Elian) that say they're one of the lowest demographics of welfare recipients. Most Cubans see charity as salt in the wound and would just as soon starve as accept it.

[AdamSelene235]

I beg to differ with you Adam, part of our Security is our immigration policy

I agree entirely. We shouldn't let Saudis/Iranians/etc in unless they are professed enemies of the State/radical Islam, IMO. Know a couple folks like that myself, best damn Americans you ever met.

This is no excuse no to let in as many Chinese,Vietmanese, Nicaraguans, etc in as possible.

The problem is that Socialism is incompatable with the immigration policies that made this country great and both major parties are Socialist.

[HELLRAISER II]

You have the time line correct and trust me when I tell you I meant no offense if you are of Cuban decent. But it was the one mass influx of illegal aliens that I personally knew of. I in no way meant to insinuate that all Cubans were like Tony(Al Pacino) in Scarface, only that what they did coming over was not the legal correct way to go about it. On the other hand, if I was in Cuba I to would do whatever it took to come to America, including sneaking in illegally.

[constitutiongirl]

You should witness some inter-hispanic fighting. lol. We like to argue which group is superior to the other and we even have our own little prejudicial heirarchy. Of course, you can probably guess which group I think is at the top of the heap.;)

[HELLRAISER II]

This may sound ignorant but at one time I thought speaking Spanish was speaking Spanish, but when you talk to somebody that truly knows the difference they will tell you that not only are there different dialects of Spanish but their different cliques of Hispanics. I know that probably sounds naive, but hell I didn't know back then.