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1 posted on 07/08/2002 4:52:12 PM PDT by commieprof
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To: commieprof
Who asked you?
2 posted on 07/08/2002 4:59:55 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: commieprof
Speaking of the light of day, feedback, death threats, freedom, patriotism, etc., who are you? This appears to be your first post? You need to link whatever you are reacting to, or give the title so a search can find it.
3 posted on 07/08/2002 5:00:38 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: commieprof
Contrary to my correspondents, I do not believe that order is the ground from which all liberty springs. History teaches quite another lesson--it took a civil war, for example, to end slavery.

No, it didn't. Slavery was becoming untenable in any event and would have been ended, probably within another decade or two if the civil war had not been fought. It certainly didn't require a civil war to end the practice elsewhere in the Western world.

And another thing, the Gulf War was surely fought to protect the oil supply, which is quite different than spinning it as "protecting oil profits." This country has been more than willing to let oil companies go bankrupt because of low prices for oil, so the socialist crap about fighting for evil profits is just that.

6 posted on 07/08/2002 5:06:26 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: commieprof
What's the frequency?
8 posted on 07/08/2002 5:09:18 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: commieprof
...I suggest you read some Howard Zinn...

That's as far as one needs to read this tripe. He and Noam Chomsky are on the same planet.

9 posted on 07/08/2002 5:09:31 PM PDT by facedown
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To: commieprof
Blah! Blah! Blah!

Was there a point to this mass of prose?

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

That about sums it up. I feel sorry for anybody who has to "learn" from you.

Buy a mirror.

10 posted on 07/08/2002 5:10:17 PM PDT by Duke Nukum
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To: commieprof; dighton; Orual; aculeus
I do not have space to go through all the evidence for these claims, but if you have an open mind, I suggest you read some Howard Zinn, especially People's History of the United States...

I have. It's horrible. Absolutely horrible. Quite possibly the most worthless "history" of the United States ever written. But hey, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck like it, right?

Why not wash that awful taste out of your mouth by reading Paul Johnson's infinitely better work?

13 posted on 07/08/2002 5:12:55 PM PDT by general_re
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To: commieprof
You are correct that I am relatively privileged; I would not have the same rights to dissent and protest in countries like Afghanistan, although if I lived there, I would be part of social movements to resist oppression whether in the form of Islamic fundamentalism or U.S. bombs.

If you lived there? That's it? You put in so much passion in your post, yet your passion is not enough to buy a ticket and head over there and become a "part of social movements....". Obviously you are not as idealistic as you pretend to be. You would rather live under our "oppressive gov't" then fight for your ideals over there. Weak.

I pledged solidarity not with any nation's leaders or terrorist organizations, but with the ordinary people,

Our gov't is elected by those very "ordinary people" you pretend to pledge solidarity with.

who are not being liberated by U.S. sanctions and bombs or by U.S. support for the Israeli occupation.

You are right, our sanctions are not effective, but keep in mind that that they are in place because of the people like you who did not want us to finish the job we started in the Gulf War. As for the "Israeli occupation", you show your lack of knowledge about the conflict. Why don't you go get a history lesson at your university and look into what Trans Jordan was created for.

I see the people in Afghanistan who were bombed as they celebrated a wedding two weeks ago as being as human as those who died in the World Trade Center, for whom I also have tremendous compassion.

Comparing accidental manslaughter with first degree murder? Weak.

I will raise questions about U.S. foreign policy and corporate globalization as long as I can. It is my prerogative, my right, and, as I see it, my responsbility.

We are well fed over here and have roofs over our heads, and so do nations which cooperate with us. Why don't you go to a third world nation and help them out? You are an arm chair liberal, as most of your kind is.

As a socialist (not a Stalinist, and there is a difference), I have a positive vision of international solidarity and struggle against greed,

Isn't it interesting that those who live in the (greedy) capitalistic societies are much better off then those who lived in communist/socialist societies? Explain please. war,

Being against war is not enough. War brings clarity. There can be no peace until the war is won. If you stop a war without a clear victor, it will pick up later on (ie: the Gulf War and the Middle East conflict).

exploitation, and oppression on a world scale.

I haven't heard your kind criticize the arab tyrannies. How come? You socialists treat UN as if it is a legitimate organization. Tell me, out of all the UN members - how many are democracies, and why should we subject ourselves to the agenda of tyrants and dictators?

In my view, patriotic fervor dehumanizes people around the world so that their deaths or their hunger or their homelessness can be blamed on them and forgotten

Sounds very humane, yet makes little sense. The fact that we do very well here in the States, and are aiding those in need around the world ADDS to the patriotic fervor - not takes away.

History teaches quite another lesson--it took a civil war, for example, to end slavery.

Very good. You recognize the fact that a war is sometimes necessary. As I stated before - war brings clarity. Let's rephrase your sentence a little - "History teaches quite another lesson - it took a war on terror, for example, to end terrorism". Wonderful.

19 posted on 07/08/2002 5:17:51 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: commieprof
Any viewpoint is welcome in my classes so long as the arguer can provide evidence and reasoning in support of claims.

I assume this was posted in order to "hold class" for those here who have misunderstood your position. Allow me to point out something about your post; there is scant evidence or reasoning defending the positions you advocate. So what is the point of your post other than reminding folks that the right of dissent is essential for liberty to exist.

I suggest if your going to post these types of rebuttals and want to be respected and welcomed you should include some meat for us Neanderthals to chew on.

20 posted on 07/08/2002 5:18:00 PM PDT by Fzob
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To: commieprof
Some questions:

What kind of vehicle do you drive?

Have you ever flown on an airplane?

Have you ever been mugged?

Since income taxes are based on profits, is it your position that profits are obcene and so taxes are obcene?

Does it bother you that you live off taxes paid by others, based on their income or profits? When you look in the mirror do you see a leech?

Have you ever had a real job?

I could go on, but you get the point. Leeches do not mind living off the hard work of people who have real jobs.

22 posted on 07/08/2002 5:18:57 PM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: commieprof
Dana,

You say capitalism exploits the poor of 3rd world countries? Tell me, if there were, say, minimum wage laws over there do you think that our companies would go that far to hire anymore? Then, tell me who will hire those out of work workers for that pay? You just starved hundreds of thousands, but at least they die "unexploited" huh?

24 posted on 07/08/2002 5:20:44 PM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: commieprof
bump for later (meaning that I have posted this response so that I may return to this thread later when I have more time to read it).
25 posted on 07/08/2002 5:22:13 PM PDT by Constitutional Patriot
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To: commieprof
Another Lefty with no sense of Irony, and an apparent love
for the usual boilerplate presented as if for the first time heard by anyone anywhere. What a bore.
27 posted on 07/08/2002 5:23:47 PM PDT by willyboyishere
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To: commieprof
He even thought that the citizenry should take up arms against a government when they thought it was becoming too tyrannical. It took a revolution to make the democracy you cherish, and in my view it will take another to make real democracy (political and economic) for the majority of the world's population.

And by "real democracy" you mean Marxism, but are not honest enough to say that. Our 'Democracy' is a most successful mix of indivual freedom, capitalism, and limited socialism. All countries could thrive if they would follow our lead, instead of the Marxist vision that you preach.

29 posted on 07/08/2002 5:25:05 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: commieprof; All
Because I'm the sort of person who just can't resist throwing gasoline on the fire, please allow me to post your Talking Points on Abortion for the perusal of my fellow Freepers. I expect it will prove wildly popular ;)

Talking Points on Abortion Rights

1/17/02

1. Over my year shere at UT, I’ve come out on these steps on many occasions. I’ve come out as a lesbian, as a socialist, as someone who opposes the war in Afghanistan and supports the rights of University staff. Today I’m coming out again--as someone liberated by the right to safe, legal, and accessible abortion. I gain courage from the fact that nearly half of all American women stand here with me in spirit. Nearly half of all American women will seek an abortion at some point in their lives. In 1963 my mother might have been among them, but she didn’t have this choice. She sacrificed medical school , her economic security, and her independence to have me. Although I am glad to be here, if she had had the choice and used it, I would not have known the difference.

2. In 1984, I was a sophomore in college. I discovered I was pregnant by my long-term boyfriend, who, after writing me a check for $190 and dropping me off at the clinic, left me for good. I was working way through school at Penn State. I was terrified at the prospect of bearing a child. While I was ashamed at having beeb careless enough to become pregnant in the first place , I experienced the abortion as a huge relief , not at all marked by trauma or shame. In many meaningful ways, it saved my life. Childbearing and raising should be undertaken under conditions of freedom and material and emotional security. Today I have an eleven-year-old daughter . I am glad I waited until I was ready emotionally and materially to raise her without making the wilting sacrifices required of my mother.

3. I have no shame about having had an abortion. And I think our movement should have no shame either. We have, unfortunately, been shamed into hiding by the anti-choice movement and its misrepresentations of fetuses, of women who seek abortions, and of doctors who perform them. Instead of demanding the right to safe, legal, and accessible abortion, we have been cowering behind slogans like “reduce the need, defend the right.” Where has this retreat gotten us? 4. Abortion rights have been under attack since they were won in 1973. Nearly 90% of counties in the United States have no abortion providers. Multiple legal restrictions –such as waiting periods and parental and spousal consent requirements--make abortion inaccessible to young, working, and poor women. In fifteen states there is a gag rule preventing organizations receiving state funds from mentioning abortion. Only 18 states fund abortion for poor women. Overall, states have enacted 262 anti-choice measures over the past six years. The struggle locally at Brackenridge Hospital to keep abortion services available there points up the erosion of access nationwide.

5. It is important to point out that this erosion has taken place under democratss and republicans alike. The Hyde Amendment, which prohibits federal assistance for poor women’s abortions, passes every year regardless of which party dominates Congress. During Clinton’s presidency, when Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, none of the promised abortion rights improvements—including the Freedom of Choice Act and a fight against the Hyde amendment—took place. Instead, in a deal with Republicans, Clinton agreed to a global gag rule. Sentate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, a Democrat, proposed a ban on all post-viability abortions. Still NOW and NARRAL uncritically back democrats, silencing critics and alternative candidates such as Ralph Nader, who would actually defend our right to safe, legal, and accessible abortion.

6. I see an urgent need for a sustained and unashamed movement like one that won right to choose in 1973 under Nixon, it bears emphasizing, whose position on abortion resemled that of George W. Bush. The persistence of the movement pushed the political balance in favor of choice. Bush would like to tilt the balance on the Supreme Court against abortion, but a massive public outcry could be a deciding factor again in preventing him from getting away with it. In 1989, hundreds of thousands of pro-choice supporters marched on Washington. It is no accident that while Chief Justice Rehnquist was writing what he thought was a majority decision in the Webster case overturning Roe, Reagan appointee Sandra Day O’Connor swung the other way. The electoral strategy has failed and an annual day of celebration like this one is not enough to defend women’s lives.

7. In this context we need a movement that recognizes that abortion is a class issue as well as an issue of women’s freedom. Control of women and the nuclear family are tied to economic system that prioritizes corporate greed over human need and does not provide basic necessities for families such as heath care, education, food and shelter, and transportation. It is a bitter irony that young women who get pregnant are told not to have an abortion; but they are also vilified if they seek social support in form of welfare. The very same people who want to restrict abortion want to keep young women in ignorance regarding contraception and safe sex. And our movement is in retreat; abortion is a dirty word. I clearly remember the 1995 New York Times editorial in which Naomi Wolff condemned late-term abortions, seeking common ground with the anti-choice right. We can’t cave in to the misrepresentations out there . There is no such thing as ‘partial birth’ abortion. This is a term opponents invented to shame women who seek medically necessary and extremely rare late-term abortions into risking their lives. We should have no shame in our support of this option in such cases.

8. In general, the right to choose when and under what conditions to bear children is not a necessary evil—it is a necessary good. Nearly half of all American women will avail themselves of this good during their lifetime; it is a safe procedure and a responsible choice. The scientific and medical community maintains that the earliest age of viability remains at 24-26 weeks, while more than 98 percent of abortions take place before the end of the twentieth week of pregnancy. The embryo, fetus not a child; abortion is not murder. The anti-choice movement turns women into incubators rather than persons .

9. JFA exhibit coming back—try to shame us with their grotesque misrepresentations of abortion. Activist meeting tonight 7 p.m. Quacks 43rd and Duval

10. I am not ashamed to know firsthand what the right to choose means to American women. I am not ashamed to declare my support for free abortion on demand and without apology in public here today. I would be proud to march in the street to win back this vital prerequisite of women’s freedom. Let’s come out of hiding and talk back to those who would stigmatize and punish us. Let’s rebuild the movement for the right to choose for all women before we have lost it altogether. I want my daughter, should she find herself pregnant, to have the same choices that I have benefited from. For her, for all our daughters, and for ourselves, let’s build a n abortion rights movement that is not shackled by shame.


32 posted on 07/08/2002 5:26:20 PM PDT by general_re
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To: commieprof
As a socialist (not a Stalinist, and there is a difference), I have a positive vision of international solidarity and struggle against greed, war, exploitation, and oppression on a world scale.

That's nice. Socialism is a perfectly valid workable system - for ants and bees. It doesn't work for people in numbers much beyond those which a person will normally interact with directly in the course of his life. It certainly won't work on a global scale unless and until you can remove or suppress the individuality that is part of human nature, and if that's what you're after, the you are the enemy.

33 posted on 07/08/2002 5:27:25 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: commieprof
Dear Ms. Cloud: I linked back to your original post and read your credentials. Now I'm just a simple graduate of Florida State Univ.with a BFA actually. Nothing that earth-shattering as far as heavy duty academics; but, for the life of me, I cannot understand how you could spend that much time in higher education and still think that the War between the States (Civil War) was about slavery. Lady...You need a real history class!!!!!
34 posted on 07/08/2002 5:30:05 PM PDT by Desparado
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To: commieprof
"Commieprof" (alias "Dana Cloud"?):

If you are as sincere as you say, then you can email me privately (using the freerepublic email) with your request to engage me in a discussion of your ideas. I will be using formal logic for the purpose of enlightenment. If your aims differ, you need not respond. I will not further the agendas of others by giving them a propaganda venue, nor will I engage in 'discussions' for the sake of 'victory'. I must caution you that I will take you to task, and you should prepare yourself accordingly.

To motivate:

I will prove to you, in no uncertain terms, that your post is irrational and nonsensical.

I will, of course, inform the other freepers of your reponse to this (or lack thereof), which should help reveal the substance and veracity of your post.

And to you I give the floor...
35 posted on 07/08/2002 5:30:37 PM PDT by ableChair
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To: commieprof

You are dumb as a box of rocks, have the same arrogance as too many slackademics with leftist axes to grind. But at least you have enough guts to post here.

I long for the days when Chairman Mao used to send "intellectuals" such as you into the countryside to hoe cabbages, shovel manure for a few years or a decade. He knew what freakin' phonies you are.

36 posted on 07/08/2002 5:31:06 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: commieprof
I should add that people in developing countries are not being liberated by the opportunites provided by U.S.-dominated world capitalism

The objective of an economic system is to divy up scarce resources. If the objective was to liberate then that requires either force or a change in faith, either way its something you apparently would not agree to.

You seem to have your expectations of an economic system misplaced.

37 posted on 07/08/2002 5:32:29 PM PDT by VRWC_minion
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