Separation of Church and State

self | 6/30/02 | Pietro Cassinadri

[PieroC]

If the Constitution of the United States of America, in its various interpreations,
does provide for a Wall of Separation between the Church and the State, can we then
expect the State not to intervene if the Church declares people above 14 years of
age not to be children anymore?

Are the Churches compounds exempt from State laws?

Can the Priests found guilty of crimes avoid State prescribed punishments?

[PieroC]

no,
no,
no horse!

[ppaul]

silly.

[Fzob]

Are the Churches compounds exempt from State laws?

Compounds??????

[Gil4]

The short answer: No, No, and No.

The questions do provide an interesting point of dicussion for the idea that the wall of seperation must remain "high and impenatrable," as one of the earlier S.C. decisions that cited the Jefferson quote (out of context) insisted. The wall is becoming very one-directional; religion is systematically excluded from government while the government has shown an increasing tendency to interfere with churches, especially through the use of the tax code and zoning laws.

[davetex]

I think I see your point. I think you are taking the "seperation" idea to extremes to make a very good point.
If there truly is a complete seperation, then there are no
laws that could apply to any organization calling itself a
church.

[Polybius]

If the Constitution of the United States of America, in its various interpreations, does provide for a Wall of Separation between the Church and the State, can we then expect the State not to intervene if the Church declares people above 14 years of age not to be children anymore?

First of all, the Consitution does no such thing. The Constitution guarantees Freedon of Religion, not Freedon from Religion. This non-existent "Wall of Separation" is used by Liberals as an argument to strip any reference of God from public life in direct violation of the First Amendment's clause "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion.

As to your second point, the determination of the legal age of adulthood is a matter of civil law and not religious law just as a Church's tax exempt status is a matter of civil law and not Church law.

In those kinds of issues, I would direct you to statement Jesus himself. "Render unto Caesar that things that are Caesar's and render unto God the things that are God's."

[PieroC]

I have read, countless times, the sentence: "...in the Waco Compound..."
All those writers could not possibly be erring.

[Optimist]

the constitution prohibits establishment of a state run or state endorsed religion. However, it does not prohibit references of faith or religion in general, therefore the seemingly contradicting "in G-d we trust" "so help me G-d" etc. which do not affirm any one religion or even the particular god.

[Bandolier]

Ummm, you might wanna' stop defending the homosexual rapists priests...maybe...

[jwh_Denver]

Separation between the Church and the State

No where in the US Constitution does it say separation of Church and State. "Separation" was added to put up the illusion of a wall, a toehold to get or keep religion out of any government decisions thus ushering in the immorality that stinks up our government today. You find "separation" in this.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

This is a restriction on the government but they have turned this around and now they are the ones who are restricting the people with the so-called "separation" crap.
As soon as you start thinking "separation" you have given them power that the Constitution does not grant them.

[Eastbound]

"Compounds??????"

Webster's 20th Century:

com'pound, n. 1. In the Orient, an enclosed space with a building or group of buildings in it, especially if occupied by foreigners.
2. Any similar enclosed space, as for the temporary confinement of prisoners of war.

You might say that Janet considered the Mt. Carmel group prisoners of war and acted in accordance with the Bin Laden Rules of Warfare. So, yes, in some people's minds, church property can be referred to as a 'compound.' So can a garage, a cardboard shack., or a single-room dwelling in the mountains when the feds have you surrounded. That would even make your grass hut a compound, as you would be 'temporarily confined' until they drag your burning corpse out.

I used to think eveyone was using the word incorrectly and took offense when the media and prosecutors, and other pro-fascist supporters continually referred to the Mt. Carmel church/residence as a 'compound.' Then I read the definition of the word and learned they were using it correctly - in a hellish sort of way..

All I can say is whenever you hear the media and the gunnerment refer to your property as a 'compound,' ( ala Mount Carmel) you can bet they consider you as a prisoner of war and have come to serve a 'no arrest' warrant on you. And yes, they consider you a 'foreigner,' in accordance with the Emergency War Powers and Trading with the Enemies Act -- due to your belligerent attitude toward the 'color of law' by enjoying Life, Liberty and pursuing Happiness.

[Abcdefg]

The Waco Davidians were not in a "Compound" by any definition of the word. The buildngs were not in an "enclosed" area.

[WakeUpChristian]

children rights the U.N said next

[Eastbound]

The buildings were surrounded -- by people with guns -- and tanks. That was the enclosure.

More Webster: "Enclose = 1. to surround; to shut in; to hem in . . ."

"Surround = 1. (use) ". . . .they surrounded a body of the enemy..""

[Fzob]

Interesting points

I frequently find myself feeling like a foreigner in my own country.

[mindprism.com]

the determination of the legal age of adulthood is a matter of civil law

Then we should prosecute minors engaging in sexual activity, and prosecute those who enable such activity by providing contraceptives. We should be teaching them that having sex is unlawful. Not understanding the reasons behind the law is not an excuse. If we let minors off the hook for sex then we should let them off the hook for drugs too.

[Eastbound]

"I frequently find myself feeling like a foreigner in my own country."

Me too. I would expect many others feel that way as well. It' a consequence of knowing what our country is supposed to be, as opposed to what it is becoming, and feeling helpless to stop the transition. To make matters worse, the left hand of terror has descended upon us, and I believe it will prove to be the missing factor needed to re-construct that ancient and well-used crucible -- from which massive political changes will issue. I'm sure I will not fit the mold and will be tossed into the reject pile along with many others who will not give up their inheritance.

[PieroC]

I frequently find myself feeling like a foreigner in my own country.

I feel foreigner in many countries!