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COURT AGAIN RULES ON SEARCH
Fiedor Report On the News #278 ^ | 6-23-02 | Doug Fiedor

Posted on 06/22/2002 7:30:52 AM PDT by forest

It seems there are a lot of very stupid criminals around. What kind of dingdong would consent to being searched by police while carrying large quantities of illegal substances? It happens.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that Police in Florida were within their rights to board a Greyhound bus and question passengers. Furthermore, when police came to two men wearing heavy clothing on a warm day, police had a right to ask permission to search their luggage and bodies.

That police found bricks of cocaine strapped to the men's legs was not necessarily the question before the Court. The question for the Court was whether or not the perpetrators were coerced into cooperating with police, who did not tell them they had the right to refuse the search.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote the opinion for the Court, stating that the men agreed to the search, and nothing about the fact that they were seated on a bus forced them to say yes.

When an officer "asks" if he may search your stuff, you have a perfect right to "just say no." If police are doing a legal search, they will not ask. If they ask, that indicates they have no legal right. So, the proper response is a polite reply such as, "I choose to not participate in your random search." That is all that need be said. And, last week, in United States v. Drayton(1), the U.S. Supreme Court attempts to explain that concept to us yet again:

"Law enforcement officers do not violate the Fourth Amendments prohibition of unreasonable seizures merely by approaching individuals on the street or in other public places and putting questions to them if they are willing to listen (2, 3), (holding that such interactions in airports are the sort of consensual encounter[s] that implicat[e] no Fourth Amendment interest). Even when law enforcement officers have no basis for suspecting a particular individual, they may pose questions, ask for identification, and request consent to search luggage provided they do not induce cooperation by coercive means. See Florida v. Bostick (4). If a reasonable person would feel free to terminate the encounter, then he or she has not been seized."

When a citizen clearly states to an officer that they do not wish to participate in a police fishing expedition, the officers should then leave that person alone. If police do not back off, the citizen's Fourth Amendment rights start to kick in. Or, in the legal jargon of the Court:

"The Court has rejected in specific terms the suggestion that police officers must always inform citizens of their right to refuse when seeking permission to conduct a warrantless consent search.(5, 6) While knowledge of the right to refuse consent is one factor to be taken into account, the government need not establish such knowledge as the sine qua non of an effective consent. Nor do this Courts decisions suggest that even though there are no per se rules, a presumption of invalidity attaches if a citizen consented without explicit notification that he or she was free to refuse to cooperate. Instead, the Court has repeated that the totality of the circumstances must control, without giving extra weight to the absence of this type of warning.(7) Although Officer Lang did not inform respondents of their right to refuse the search, he did request permission to search, and the totality of the circumstances indicates that their consent was voluntary, so the searches were reasonable.

"In a society based on law, the concept of agreement and consent should be given a weight and dignity of its own. Police officers act in full accord with the law when they ask citizens for consent. It reinforces the rule of law for the citizen to advise the police of his or her wishes and for the police to act in reliance on that understanding. When this exchange takes place, it dispels inferences of coercion."

Which means, if you do not want to be bothered by a random search, just tell the police that. Because, at that point, they have no more right to search your stuff than you do theirs.

Among other things, the Constitution guarantees freedom from "unreasonable searches or seizures." It is unfortunate that many public officials can not be trusted to "support and defend" our Constitutional rights as they promised God and Country when taking their oath of office. So, as we see yet again, we must be the first line in defense of those rights.

-----------------------------

1. http://laws.findlaw.com/us/000/01-631.html

2. Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 497 (1983)

3. Florida v. Rodriguez, 469 U.S. 1, 56 (1984)

4. Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S., at 434435

5. Ohio v. Robinette, 519 U.S. 33, 3940 (1996)

6. Schneckloth v. Bustamonte, 412 U. S. 218, 227 (1973)

7. Schneckloth, supra; Robinette, supra, at 3940.

 

 END


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; cocaine; conrights; consent; justsayno; mustinform; oath; supremecourt; usvdrayton
When an officer "asks" if he may search your stuff, you have a perfect right to "just say no." If police are doing a legal search, they will not ask. If they ask, that indicates they have no legal right. So, the proper response is a polite reply such as, "I choose to not participate in your random search." That is all that need be said. And, last week, in United States v. Drayton(1), the U.S. Supreme Court attempts to explain that concept to us yet again:

"The Court has rejected in specific terms the suggestion that police officers must always inform citizens of their right to refuse when seeking permission to conduct a warrantless consent search." Which means, if you do not want to be bothered by a random search, just tell the police that. Because, at that point, they have no more right to search your stuff than you do theirs.

Among other things, the Constitution guarantees freedom from "unreasonable searches or seizures." It is unfortunate that many public officials can not be trusted to "support and defend" our Constitutional rights as they promised God and Country when taking their oath.

1 posted on 06/22/2002 7:30:52 AM PDT by forest
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To: forest
Except that when the police ask their innocent little question, if you say no, then a cop will think that you are suspicious, will continue to ask you questions, won't let you leave, and then get ont he stand and lie about what happened and make up stuff to backdate a "reasonable suspiscion." parsy.
2 posted on 06/22/2002 7:41:04 AM PDT by parsifal
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To: forest
So if we say "No, we choose not to participate in your illegal search", the police will just nicely let us alone?! Ever hear of the Johnny Gammage case in Pittsburgh PA, where the cops in the white suburbs shot the shit out of a black motorist who mouthed off at them during a late-nite traffic stop?
3 posted on 06/22/2002 7:42:10 AM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: forest
In other words, "Miranda" is pretty silly . . .
4 posted on 06/22/2002 7:42:51 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: parsifal
Of course in the instance of a passenger on a bus, there are witnesses who can't be trusted . . .
5 posted on 06/22/2002 7:45:45 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: parsifal
I suppose you have personal experiences where that all happened?
6 posted on 06/22/2002 7:46:42 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Ciexyz
If a person is so ignorant as to mouth off, though it doesn't warrant police abuse, then they're, well, the person is ignorant. Just politely say "no."

7 posted on 06/22/2002 7:46:53 AM PDT by Zon
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To: forest
"If they ask, that indicates they have no legal right."

I'd like to clarify this legal wording, to avoid possible confusion. The above sentence means that, when they don't have a warrant, the police do not have a legal right to search a persons "stuff" without consent. If they do have a warrant, most officers know that courtesy does frequently prevent trouble.
8 posted on 06/22/2002 7:49:27 AM PDT by jimtorr
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To: forest
Never say "yes" to getting your car searched. You might be left beside the road with the seats and upholstery laying beside your car.
9 posted on 06/22/2002 7:52:52 AM PDT by gitmo
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
"In other words, "Miranda" is pretty silly . . ."

"Miranda" only applies to an arrest. It has no bearing on an officer asking someone for permission to search their "stuff".

Also, what an officer does after being refused permission is another issue entirely.
10 posted on 06/22/2002 7:53:24 AM PDT by jimtorr
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To: Ciexyz
The headline begs the question. A guy who is carrying cocaine would not voluntarily submit to a search. To assume that this was ignorance rather than the result of threatening behavior by the police strains credulity.

If there is any doubt as to the permissiveness of the search, we must give the benefit of the doubt to the defendent, just as we assume innocence.

If we want to stop this abuse, it might be good if there were criminal penalties for the officers who engage in illegal searches. The exact charge would depend on the details of the incident-what was actually done. Depending on circumstances, the charges might be armed robbery, strong armed robbery, burglary, carjacking or whatever.

11 posted on 06/22/2002 7:55:43 AM PDT by Mike4Freedom
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To: DugwayDuke
Naturlich. It is a well known phenomenon. Talk to some cops and they will verify it for you. Some Cops are even taught how to lie. parsy.
12 posted on 06/22/2002 8:01:15 AM PDT by parsifal
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To: gitmo
Neither can you say "no" to the police. Lawyers and cops both say to tell the cop, "I can't stop you from searching, but I am not giving you my consent." If you tell them "no", you are liable to get hurt. parsy.
13 posted on 06/22/2002 8:04:08 AM PDT by parsifal
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To: parsifal
Lawyers and cops both say to tell the cop, "I can't stop you from searching, but I am not giving you my consent." If you tell them "no", you are liable to get hurt. parsy.

How about, "My father/brother is a lawyer, and he told me that if I ever consented to a search, he would kick my ass".

This is a good tactic, because by telling the cop that you have a close family member who is an attorney, wether it is true or not, will give the cop pause for a moment. Put a little fear of God in him.

14 posted on 06/22/2002 8:07:40 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: southern rock
Thats a darn good line, but cops hate lawyers. If you get a really bad one, he'll search just to run it up the lawyers "briefs." parsy.
15 posted on 06/22/2002 8:09:40 AM PDT by parsifal
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To: Mike4Freedom
A guy who is carrying cocaine would not voluntarily submit to a search. To assume that this was ignorance rather than the result of threatening behavior by the police strains credulity.

You'd be suprised. From time to time, criminals go to the police to file claims to get illegal drugs back.

16 posted on 06/22/2002 9:03:59 AM PDT by lepton
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To: parsifal
I had a good friend who told a cop "no" after getting pulled over because the cop thought a cigar he was smoking was a joint. The cop lectured him for a few minutes about how an "honest person has nothing to hide", but my friend just laughed at him. Finally, he told the cop to go ahead -but the cop said(no joke), "No, consider this your free one". My buddy just laughed, got in his car and drove off, never to see the guy again.
17 posted on 06/22/2002 10:53:07 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: lepton
I agree with your post number 16. Ever watch Cops or Real Stories of the Highway Patrol. I had to quit watching them because I was so frustrated at the way people just allowed the police to search them.

My brother, last week, got pulled over. Being a young guy, the Grayling (Michigan) police officer immediately asked to search his bag. My brother replied that he would open the bag and let him look inside, pending the officer didn't reach in, if it would make the officer happy enough to let him go on with his day. The officer consented, and my brother opened his bag. Obviously, because my brother wasn't carrying anything illegal, the cop didn't see anything to further his suspicions. Was that good enough? No. The cop asked my brother if he could look through his car. My brother said that he would not allow the police man to search his car. The policeman immediately asked if he was hiding something. My brother politely replied, "would you allow a complete stranger to stop you at the grocery store sometime and search your car? With that the policeman sent him on his way without a ticket.

My whole point of this rambling is that, like the forest officer who set the wildfires in Colorado, law-enforcement officers end up thinking they are above the law and become arrogant. Sometimes, you have to remind them that their sh*t stinks the same as everybody's.

18 posted on 06/22/2002 10:56:28 AM PDT by rodeocowboy
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To: parsifal
Naturlich. It is a well known phenomenon. Talk to some cops and they will verify it for you. Some Cops are even taught how to lie. parsy.

How true, I have a police report right here with a lie submitted as truth. The reporting officer said I gave him permission to enter and search my house. What I did was to agree to let the officer take a rifle, (legally registered) from me. The gun was in my house and I sent my son into my room to retrieve it. One of the two officers followed my son into my house and the other kept me from following. Once in my room the officer questioned my 12 year old son as to other weapons in the room.

After about 2 minutes of me telling the officer that I did not consent to the officer entering my home, I stepped around him and found the second officer going thru my bedroom closets, which was clearly a search. All in all 4 weapons were removed from my house, all legal and registered to members of my family. The 2 rifles, 1 shotgun and 1 handgun were taken.

I had called the sheriffs dept to report an assault, my 11 year old son had been hit with a baseball bat by an older boy, (14 years old) the older boy was threatening me also with the bat. This was on my property, I'm disabled and require the use of oxygen 24/7, so there was no way I could physically defend myself. I fired one round into a tree with a 22 cal rifle, not at the kid, this was after I had called 911 for assistance. After firing the one round the kid left, I put the rifle away and waited about 8 minutes till 3 cars arrived. I made a statement as to what happened but one of the officers was treating me like I had shot the kid.

The police report said I fired at the kid because he was threatening to break a window? While I did tell the officer the kid was threatening to break my windows, I never said that was the reason I fired. I was charged with negligent discharge of a firearm and being a felon in possession of 4 firearms. I had to hire an Attorney to defend my rights. When I brought up the part about the lies and my not consenting to a search, my attorney said it does not matter, said the officers could enter for their own safety to retrieve said weapon?

My felony conviction was 21 years ago, and was not for drugs or weapons. I knew that my having a felony made it illegal to own a weapon, but why does my wife, sons or brother (one rifle was his)loose their rights. The sheriffs office has refused to return the guns and stated that they are to be destroyed.

19 posted on 06/22/2002 10:58:20 AM PDT by 180grain
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To: 180grain
You are probably screwed. Officers are permitted to make a "safety sweep" in a house but it is not an automatic thing. They have to have some legitimate fear. Since you are an ex-felon, your lawyer is probably trying to squeak you thru without you getting any more charges put on you. Ask him about the law in your state regarding other family members owning firesarms and if they buy some, be sure they keep the receipt.

The other thing that you have learned is that cops manufacture reasons for searches. If they want to search your car, for example, they will follow you until your tire hits the center line, then stop you, look around the inside of the car and try to develop some reason to deem you "
suspicious." They also try to insinuate themselves into situations where they can see things in "plain view." If you want to get really mad, type in "pretext search" in yur search engine and learn about how the "good guys" do business. Remember this next time somebody on FR starts dogging out defense lawyers and technicalities. parsy.
20 posted on 06/22/2002 2:40:36 PM PDT by parsifal
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