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Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese (Debate? "Gay" is a disqualifying frame of mind)
Centre Daily Times (State College PA) ^ | May. 12, 2002 | Mike Joseph

Posted on 05/12/2002 12:41:51 PM PDT by Notwithstanding







Posted on Sun, May. 12, 2002


Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese



By Mike Joseph

mjoseph@centredaily.com

With the Roman Catholic Church engulfed in a widespread sexual abuse scandal, conservative critics of the local bishop have stepped up their campaign to pressure him to stop using a priesthood candidate evaluator whose views on homosexuality they consider too liberal.

The campaign has included attacks on Web sites and an anonymous newspaper advertisement suggesting churchgoers consider withholding money until, among other things, the bishop "removes" the targeted evaluator, State College psychologist David J. Brown.

Although Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Bishop Joseph Adamec said collections and other charitable donations have not declined, some Catholic faithful who haven't before taken sides say they have considered using money to leverage a clarification and elaboration of diocesan policy from the bishop.

"We want the priests and the bishop to follow the teachings of the church. It's bizarre to have to say that, but that's what we want," said Mary Risley, 40, a parent and a parishioner at Our Lady of Victory Church in State College.

Risley said she has herself considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding church contributions because the money pays for important work that helps people. But during an informal social gathering last week, she recalled in an interview, the idea provoked an earnest, if relaxed, discussion among about 16 women, eight of whom are Catholics.

"Yes, we have truly thought about it because we don't think we're getting the whole story," Risley said. "I would like to get more clarification, but I would feel in my heart I was letting someone down if I did not support the work of the diocese. ... The bishop needs to address this issue."

Adamec said at a news conference last week that contributions have not diminished since the clergy sexual abuse scandal broke open two months ago. But last month -- in a letter that priests read to parishioners -- the bishop seemed to be mindful at least of the possibility.

"Know that your gifts were not used and will not be used to pay for legal defense or settlement of any claim in matters of litigation," the bishop wrote.

Taking stock of vows

The issue stirring some elements of the diocese is related to one that has made Catholics across America take stock of their faith and ask whether diocesan policies contribute to a secretive culture of homosexuality in the priesthood and the sexual abuse of young boys, allegations of which have saturated the press for the last two months.

More specifically, Catholics are debating whether being gay should be sufficient cause to exclude a man from the priesthood or whether a man's ability to honor vows of celibacy --regardless of his sexuality --should be decisive.

The debate ranges from anguished discussions about whether institutionalized celibacy vows attract psychosexually immature men to the priesthood to reminders that Mychal Judge -- the 68-year-old Catholic priest and fire chaplain who perished while helping others during the Sept. 11 rescue effort at the World Trade Center -- was gay.

While the policy of the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese and most other dioceses in America makes the prospect of celibacy the deciding factor, some dioceses, including the Philadelphia Archdiocese, screen out priesthood candidates with gay tendencies. The issue is expected to be hotly debated when American bishops meet in Dallas in June to try to adopt national protocols to prevent sexual abuse among clergy.

The nationwide scandal has led critics of Adamec and Brown in the local diocese to turn up the volume of their attacks, which include accusations that diocesan policy is heretical and which renew a debate that flared three years ago when the State College Area School District was considering a policy to prohibit harassment on the basis of sexual orientation.

One of the most vocal critics then, and now, has been Gary L. Morella, 55, a Penn State research assistant, father of three and grandfather of three, former altar boy and parochial school graduate. Morella, who fondly recalls the Latin Mass, has nearly completed a graduate degree in medieval Catholic philosophy for which he has written about the tension between faith and reason in the differences between St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas.

Morella, who views homosexuality as a development disorder that can be changed, said in an interview last week that his work to expose heresy in the church had its genesis about eight years ago as he watched a TV program featuring the historian John Dominic Crossan, author of the "The Historical Jesus" and "The Birth of Christianity."

"He said Jesus Christ died a beggar's death on the cross and his body was eaten by ravenous dogs -- he denied the Resurrection," Morella said. "I looked at this and I was watching this and I thought to myself, well, this man is insane. And then I saw that he was on the faculty of DePaul University, and that just lit up everything. I realized that there are major problems here, and I've been like this ever since."

Last month, a spokesman for Pope John Paul II, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, voiced his opinion that people with homosexual inclinations should not be ordained. Morella asserts that instances of the will of the Vatican are being defied by many dioceses in the United States, including the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese.

"I think that what's called for is a papal legate," Morella said. "I think that we need an enforcer to go to the dioceses in this country. I think the situation has gotten so out of control that we need nothing less than firsthand intervention from Rome itself to straighten this out."

Vocal psychologist foes

Morella said he had nothing to do with the a Centre Daily Times advertisement suggesting church contributions be withheld, though he said he understands the "frustration" that led to it.

The two-column ad in Wednesday's CDT noted that the bishop has just launched his annual appeal for donations and "suggested ... withholding our money" until he says how much "he has paid out to silence" sexual abuse victims, until he gives names of "known abusers" to the authorities and "until he removes the controversial psychologist."

Attempts by a reporter to identify who placed the ad were inconclusive. The CDT's advertising department refused to disclose the source, citing a policy of confidentiality. But another critic of the diocese administration, Harris Township resident Brian Kaleita, said in an interview that he knew who placed the ad, though he declined to answer a follow-up question asking whether he himself had done so.

In the interview, Kaleita described himself as a conservative leader in the community and said it is his view that homosexuals are entitled to every right that anyone else is but not to special treatment, the position of some opponents of the school district's anti-harassment policy proposal three years ago.

Kaleita said that "every right" does not include admission to seminaries because Vatican law is more restrictive, barring gay men from the clergy. He said Adamec is not following that law.

"The problem with our bishop is that he sees things the way Dr. Brown does instead of the way the pope does," Kaleita said. "We have a bishop who chooses to ignore the clear meaning of the teachings directly from Rome."

By contrast, many devout Catholics see the sexual abuse crisis in the church today as stemming not from one's sexual orientation but from sexual immaturity fostered by institutional church policy.

State College resident Herman Knoble, 59, is a Penn State research associate and a committed Catholic who attends Good Shepherd Catholic Church. Like Morella, he was an altar boy and a parochial school graduate. But unlike Morella, he views homosexuality as an innate trait for which someone cannot be blamed.

Knoble asserts that promiscuity is wrong and faults the Vatican for fostering an atmosphere of immature sexual development and exerting unnatural and inordinate control over "pelvic issues" that leads to sexual experimentation in immature and sometimes abusive ways.

"The Catholic Church needs to take a strong look at itself in how it tries to use orthodoxy to control people -- that is the crux of the issue," Knoble said. "Anything that has to do with sexuality, they want to control, not just people in the pews but everybody."

Brown, 58, the State College psychologist who does psychological evaluations for the diocese, said he had no doubt that he was the target of the anonymous ad. He said the ad appeared to signal an escalation of efforts by some conservative Catholics to pressure Adamec to discontinue contract work with him.

The Altoona-Johnstown Diocese includes 104 parish priests and about 112,000 parishioners. As the head of the diocese, Adamec uses Brown to provide about half of the psychological evaluations of priesthood applicants.

Brown said in an interview that he has conducted about 200 psychological evaluations of seminary candidates in the last 25 years, and that virtually none of them admits to gay orientation during the interviews. Brown said his report to the diocese about a candidate's sexual orientation includes what the candidate says, what the tests show and what he himself thinks.

In response to some of the accusations made against him, Brown said he has never given an unfavorable recommendation on a priesthood candidate because the candidate is heterosexual, and has never endorsed someone because he is gay or liberal.

He said perhaps one out of every four of the 200 seminary candidates he has screened has become a priest, and he said none of those priests has ever been accused or otherwise been alleged to have been sexually abusive to anyone.

"I'm proud of my record," Brown said.

His critics have also accused him of telling some candidates they were "too rigid," as Morella phrased it, referring to the infallibility of church doctrine on faith and morality.

Brown said that such a commentary on someone's personality would never come up in the psychological evaluation interview itself but could come up weeks later if a candidate sought feedback on the evaluation, part of which is a standard test designed to measure rigidity and other characteristics.

"Rigidity is a personality dimension that can apply to all ideological perspectives," Brown said.

Brown faulted his own critics for their narrow focus on right and wrong.

"They think there's only one right way to be and anything else is sinful," he said. "It really is just a discrimination against homosexuality."

Risley, the parent who has considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding contributions, is a parochial school graduate, she said the clergy sexual abuse scandal has not shaken her faith in the church because her faith does not rely on priests.

She said "there seems to be an issue with Dr. Brown" and that the bishop should address it. She said she has not yet come to a conclusion about whether men with gay tendencies should be barred from seminaries.

But she said that something needs to be done to prevent the abuse of children at the hands of the clergy and that, at some point, that could be withholding contributions, an action that might force church leaders to remember the origins of Christianity.

"If this is what it takes, if it takes our priest and our bishops standing on the corner begging for money to help the poor that's how it all started," she said.

Mike Joseph can be reached at 235-3910.




© 2001 centredaily and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.centredaily.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gay; homsexual; scandal
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To: Mortin Sult
Chastity (sexual activity only in accord with one's state in life and with virtue) is a scriptural requirement - period. In other words, a person can only have intercourse with his till-death-do-we-part SPOUSE and only when it is open to the transmission of human life. Same-sex activity, adultery, fornication, affairs, birth control, masturbation, etc. are always forbidden. No extra vow needed.

Celibacy, however, is a discipline imposed by the Church upon nearly all of those whom she calls to be ordained as priests. It is this simple: It is not sinful to get married - but it is once you solemnly vow not to do so.

21 posted on 05/12/2002 2:20:02 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Thorondir
But how will that happen if we keep telling them that their sexual disorientation is just an alternate healthy lifestyle?

Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative.

Read the passage in Romans. It is very harsh and says just what I told you it does. Read it.

I'm aware of it. Read the Catholic Catechism. It encourages compassion for the PERSON, while not compromising with the ACT.

22 posted on 05/12/2002 2:24:55 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Thorondir
WRONG! Pope Leo XIII once wrote that homosexuality is "a sin so vile that even the angels of hell are repulsed by it". The Church has ALWAYS condemned it and even the new testament says that God leaves homosexuals "to the death they deserve" and refuses to help them. Look, I am no homophobe. I feel sorry for the poor, sickly, disordered wierdos. But what in hell kind of foolish thinking does it take to make one ordain a SODOMITE to the priesthood? For cripes sake! The present scandal is one of homosexuality in the priesthood, not pedophelia. Remember that pedophilia is sex with preteens. But the Sodomite priests have buggered boys in their late teens to the tune of more than 95% of all the cases. Do I have to tell you that men who have sex with young men are sodomites? Is it THAT difficult for you?

You oviously didn't read what I wrote or read the latest Pope's edict on homosexuality which essentially says hate the sin, love the sinner.

We are all sinners. It is impossible to live without sin. But we must try. For you to classify someone else's sin as worse than your own or more incompatible with a church calling than your own sins reeks of judgement far worse than the sin itself. Judgement of that sort is left to God. Being attracted to members of the same sex is not the sin, acting on those feelings is. For priests, acting on any sexual feelings towards children, men or women is incompatible with being a priest. Priests who take advantage of any parishioners in this way should lose their parish responsibilities.

It's simple. The Church doesn't need a 'thought police.' Remove those priests not strong enough to resist temptations of the flesh. Otherwise, let them continue to serve God.

23 posted on 05/12/2002 2:30:17 PM PDT by tbeatty
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To: sinkspur
Sink,

I have met too many priests who are "gay" - not merely homosexual. (Note the distinction in post 14 above).

The "Dignity" crowd is not about hating their same-sex attraction. They are about embracing their same-sex attraction and celebrating it with "Pride".

Any such "dignity"-type priests/nuns or catechists/theologians/decision-makers/spokemen/representatives of the Church need to be tossed - now.

Church teaching is clear and they are not following - nor do they have any intent to do so. They do not consider their same-sex attraction disordered nor do they wish they were straight. (Whereas an alcoholic wishes he were rid of his disorder).

24 posted on 05/12/2002 2:32:05 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Goldhammer
Why does the bishop allow secular "experts" to approve who does or does not become a Catholic priest?

That's the whole thing right there.

27 posted on 05/12/2002 2:46:55 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: sinkspur
American Catholic Catechism is wrong in part, and the Pope has ordered the American Bishops repeatedly to change it to comply with Catholic teaching. But they simply break their vows of obedience and disobey him. And the whole liberal establishment is telling the sodomites that their alternative deathstyle is normal and healthy. It is being pushed on children in public schools and in the entertainment media. Where have you been?
28 posted on 05/12/2002 2:49:55 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Notwithstanding
Any such "dignity"-type priests/nuns or catechists/theologians/decision-makers/spokemen/representatives of the Church need to be tossed - now.

Well, you know that the Pope doesn't "toss" people out of the Church, with rare exceptions. At this point in his papacy, I doubt he'll start now.

He lets the wheat grow up with the chaff, which may be wise.

29 posted on 05/12/2002 3:01:35 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: tbeatty
Why I am bothering to repond to your puerile attempt at discorse is a mystery. However:

I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood.

I disagree with ordaining to the priesthood those who dream of the behavior that compelled God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. You apparently think it is fine. Disagreeing is something people do. It is something justice and truth call for when somebody purports something immoral or foolish.

You oviously didn't read what I wrote or read the latest Pope's edict on homosexuality which essentially says hate the sin, love the sinner.

I DID read what you wrote, and I found it wrongheaded and disagreeable. My response has nothing to do with the Pope's writings and is not in disagreement with him. But you would know this if you had the rationality to understand the written English word.

For you to classify someone else's sin as worse than your own or more incompatible with a church calling than your own sins reeks of judgement far worse than the sin itself.

Nothing in my post indicated this. But you would know this if you were able to think through a simple English sentence and display a modicum of analytical thought. So I really can't help you any more. Your problem is beyond the scope of this forum. Get some education in English and have somebody help you with logic and anylitical thinking. Life should not be so confusing, and there is help out there.

Good luck.
30 posted on 05/12/2002 3:05:28 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: sinkspur
He lets the wheat grow up with the chaff, which may be wise.

Lord help us! CHAFF does not grow up with the wheat, my friend. Chaff is the hull on the grain. WEEDS grow up with the wheat. Chaff is to be winnowed away, according to Jesus. But your tortured paraphrase inadvertently brings up another good point, and that is that the Church is FILLED with comfortable, complacent chaff that may well be winnowed away in the end and thrown into the unquenchable fire if it is not awakened before it is too late.

I wait with baited breath for the bizzaaaarre misinterpretations to come.
31 posted on 05/12/2002 3:14:13 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: goldenstategirl
How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not? There are plenty of homosexuals out there who are not priests. In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

I got my threads mixed up in the past posts. Sorry. My original point was that the Catholic Church now seems to have an inordinate number of homosexual child molestors, and inordinate number of active homosexual priests, and an inordinate number of homosexual priests in general. Since I do not know who is who (and you're right - there's no way to know for sure), I have reached the conclusion that it's dangerous to have my sons alone around any priest - not only from the point of view of sexual molestation, but from the point of view of having confidence that my sons are being taught authentic Christian sexual morality. Yes, there are many wonderful priests, and many (presumably) good homosexual and chaste priests. But I will not risk my sons' welfare on just so-so odds. Major segments of the Catholic Church have been turned into gay brothels and far, far, far too many priests have become teenage boy rapists. I simply cannot presume my sons' well-being around any Catholic priest.

32 posted on 05/12/2002 3:18:56 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Goldhammer
It's completely retarded to let secular psychologists and sociologists decide, influence, or screen who is to be a Catholic priest.

Well, my friend, the clerics and hierarchs have made such a mess of things that "secular" specialists are about to become an integral part of every vocation board in the United States.

Priests screening for future priests exclusively won't be a part of the process for determining seminary candidates ever again.

33 posted on 05/12/2002 3:19:34 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: goldenstategirl
How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not?

Bingo. Homosexuality os a state-of-mind, a behavior, and an inclination to behavior. It is not a separate and special species or gender of human being. That's why so-called "gay rights" are nonsensical and absurd. How can a state-of-mind have "rights" let alone exercise rights?

Hint: it can't.

However, if a parent is made aware of or suspects a particular man possesses the gay state-of-mind the parent can and certainly mark the man for close watching.

34 posted on 05/12/2002 3:20:57 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Thorondir
American Catholic Catechism is wrong in part, and the Pope has ordered the American Bishops repeatedly to change it to comply with Catholic teaching.

I have the latest version, which was approved by John Paul II, and it says exactly what the earlier version said about homosexuality.

Where have YOU been?

35 posted on 05/12/2002 3:23:21 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Perhaps they got their act together and stopped being disobedient. I don't have the latest one, but teach from the Baltimore. And do you still stand by the following wacky statement?

Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative.

This is why I asked you where you have been, for our society is full of people saying this. Simply throwing my question back at me as a clever touche zinger is both childish and ingenuous. I would hope that you could do better, but each post I read from you leads me to further dispair of any hope for a challenging discourse. That you fail to see your own irrational mistakes makes improvement seem hopeless.
36 posted on 05/12/2002 3:34:09 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: sinkspur
I daresay God does help homosexuals, if they ask.

God helps anyone who asks and truly wants the help. Homosexuals are loved by God, just as anyone else. But what's difficult is that many active homosexuals (those who engage in homosexual acts) have been conditioned to believe that they don't heed any help. When a man feels it's good and normal and Godly to put his sexual organ up another man's rectum, or to engage in multiple sex acts with anonymous partners, he clearly needs help. The Catechism makes all the sense in the world, and is true to scripture. The acts are sinful and disordered, but the homosexual is loved by God.

37 posted on 05/12/2002 3:59:48 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: tbeatty
I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood. Engaging in homosexual acts is however.

This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should.

39 posted on 05/12/2002 7:11:25 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Thorondir
"Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative."

This is why I asked you where you have been, for our society is full of people saying this.

Yes, there are "gay Christian" groups, and even entire churches ( the MCCC for example )that claim homosexuality is a gift from God, and should be celebrated.

40 posted on 05/12/2002 7:15:20 PM PDT by Jorge
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