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Voltaire
Personal Archives | 05-11-02 | PsyOp

Posted on 05/11/2002 10:54:42 PM PDT by PsyOp

The writings of the egoist Voltaire did more for liberation than those of the loving Rousseau did for brotherhood. - Alexander Herzen, From the Other Shore.


ADMIRALS

It is good, from time to time, to kill an admiral, in order to encourage the others. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.


ADVERSITY

A man is on earth like a soldier at his post. - Voltaire, Ingenous, 1767.

He struggled; he called to his aid philosophy, which had always helped him; he derived from it only enlightenment and no relief. Duty, gratitude, sovereign majesty violated: these presented themselves to his eyes like avenging gods; he fought, he triumphed; but this victory, which had to be won every moment, cost him groans and tears. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


ANCESTORS

The first who was king was a successful soldier. He who serves well his country has no need of ancestors. - Voltaire, Mérope, 1743.


ARGUMENT

A long dispute means both parties are wrong. - Voltaire.


ARMIES

He admired the magnificent bridges erected over the river, the superb and convenient quays, the palaces built up right and left, an immense house where thousands of old soldiers, wounded and victorious, gave thanks each day to the God of Armies. - Voltaire, The World As It Is. 1748.

Nothing could be so beautiful, so smart, so brilliant, so well drilled as the two armies. Trumpets, fifes, oboes, drums, cannons formed a harmony such as was never heard even in hell. First the cannons felled about six thousand men on each side; then the musketry removed from the best of worlds some nine or ten thousand scoundrels who infected its surface. The bayonet also was the sufficient reason for the death of some thousands of men. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


ARMS INDUSTRY

Fortune... introduced them to the wife of a contractor for army hospitals, a man of great talent who could boast of having killed more soldiers in one year than canon slays in ten. - Voltaire, Jeannot & Colin. 1764.


ART

All the arts are brothers; each one is a light to the others. - Voltaire, Note to Ode on the Death of the Princess de Bareith.

You must have the devil in you to succeed in any of the arts. - Voltaire, (quoted in Tallentyre, Life of Voltaire).


BEAUTY

You appeared there, and they broke my chains! So there is, in beauty and virtue, an invincible charm that makes gates of iron fall and softens hearts of bronze. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


BRAVERY & COURAGE

There is nothing left for us but to sell our lives dear. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.


CHANCE

There is no chance; all is test, or punishment, or reward, or foreseeing. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


CHARACTER

He noticed in her a touch of frivolity and a strong inclination always to think that the best-looking young men were those who possessed the most intelligence and virtue. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

Strong souls have much more violent feeling than others, when they are tender. - Voltaire, Ingenuous, 1767.


CHURCH & STATE What! You have no monks to teach, to dispute, to govern, to intrigue, and to have people burned who are not of their opinion? - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.
COMBAT

The Egyptian was more robust than his adversary, Zadig was more adroit; he fought like man whose head directed his arm, and the other like a madman whose blind anger guided his movements at random. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


COMMON SENSE

Common sense is not so common. - Voltaire, A Philosophical Dictionary, 1764.


COMMUNICATION

We shall talk, and your thinking faculty will have the pleasure of communicating with mine by means of speech, which is a marvelous thing that men do not admire enough. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield’s Ears, 1775.


CONFUSION

We must keep in mind that it is much easier to turn on one’s axis than to walk on one’s feet. - Voltaire, Micromegas. 1752.


CORRUPTION

Surely... men have corrupted nature a little, for they were not born wolves, and they have become wolves; God gave them neither twenty-four-pounder cannon nor bayonets, and they have made bayonets and cannon to destroy one another. I could put bankruptcies into account, and the justice which seizes the goods of the bankrupt to defraud their creditors of them. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


CRIME

History is nothing more than the portrayal of crimes and misfortunes. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


CRUELTY

Good humor is incompatible with cruelty. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


CUSTOM

Let the law never be contradictory to custom: for if the custom be good, the law is worthless. - Voltaire, A Philosophical Dictionary, 1764.


DECEPTION

He believed all he saw and imagined all he did not see. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


DISCIPLINE

I set more store by a good regimen that maintains my humors in balance and procures me a commendable digestion and a sound sleep. Drink hot when it freezes, drink cool in the dog days; in everything, neither too much nor too little; digest, sleep, have pleasure, and snap your fingers at the rest of it. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield’s Ears, 1775.


DREAMS

In those days dreams gave a man a great reputation. - Voltaire, Plato’s Dream, 1756.


EDUCATION

Hardly has a man begun to get a little education when death becomes before he has experience. - Voltaire, Micromegas. 1752.

Books rule the world, or at least those nations which have a written language; the others do not matter. - Voltaire.


ENEMIES

There is nothing so common as to imitate the practice of enemies and to use their weapons. - Voltaire.

So you are counting on eating a Jesuit today; that is a very good thing to do; nothing is more just than to treat one’s enemies thus. In fact natural law teaches us to kill our neighbor, and this is how people behave all over the world.... Certainly it is better to eat one’s enemies than to abandon the fruits of victory to the crows and the ravens. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.


EQUALITY

Men are equal; it is not birth but virtue that makes the difference. - Voltaire.


EVIL

A little evil is often necessary for obtaining a great good. - Voltaire.


FATE

I sometimes tell them that all is for the very best, but those who have been ruined and mutilated at war believe nothing of it, and neither do I. - Voltaire, Story of A Good Brahman, 1761.


FREE SPEECH

I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire.


FRIENDSHIP

It is the first law of friendship that it be cultivated; the second law is to be indulgent when the first law has been neglected. - Voltaire.


GOOD & EVIL

The wicked... are always unhappy. They serve to test a small number of just men scattered over the earth, and there is no evil out of which some good is not born. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


GOVERNMENT

There has never been a perfect government, because men have passions; and if they did not have passions, there would be no need for government. - Voltaire.

In general, the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give it to the other. - Voltaire, A Philosophical Dictionary, 1764.


HABIT

A man cannot get rid of his habits all at once. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


HAPPINESS

On what does happiness depend? Everything persecutes me in this world, even beings that do not exist. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

I have told myself a hundred times that I would be happy if I was as stupid as my neighbor, and yet I would want no part of such a happiness. - Voltaire, Story of a Good Brahman. 1761.


HISTORY

History is but a picture of crimes and misfortunes. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.

Ancient histories, as one of our wits has said, are but fables that have been agreed upon. - Voltaire, Jeannot et Colin.

I am weary of all the nonsense with which so many self-styled historians have stuffed their chronicles and of all the battles they have so badly described. I would just as soon believe that Gideon won a signal victory with three hundred pitchers. - Voltaire, ount Chesterfield’s Ears. 1775.

I shall relate candidly how the thing happened, without putting in anything of my own; which is no small effort for a historian. - Voltaire, Micromegas. 1752.


HUMAN NATURE

It had seemed to him that human nature was once double, and that as a punishment for its faults it was divided into male and female. - Voltaire, Plato's Dream, 1756.

Do you think... that men have always massacred each other as they do today, always been liars, cheats, faith-breakers, ingrates, brigands, weaklings, rovers, cowards, enviers, gluttons, drunkards, misers, self-seekers, carnivors, calumniators, debauchers, fanatics, hypocrites, and fools? - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.


JUDGEMENT

“Men,” said the angel Jesrad, “pass judgement on everything without knowing anything. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

In the course of conversation they agreed that things in this world did not always go as the wisest men would wish. The hermit steadfastly maintained that we do not know the ways of providence and that men were wrong in passing judgement on a whole of which they perceived only the smallest part. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


JUDGES

No doubt those who have thus bought the right to judge sell their judgements; I see nothing here but abysses of iniquity. - Voltaire, The World As It Is, 1748.


LAW

Let all the laws be clear, uniform and precise: to interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them. - Voltaire, Philosophical Dictionary, 1764.

Which one of us shall dare to change a law that time has consecrated? Is there anything more respectable than an ancient abuse? - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


LEADERSHIP

In all things he preferred being to seeming, and thereby he attracted true consideration, to which he did not aspire. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


LIFE

All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.

"You are very hard," said Candide.
"That's because I have lived," said Martin. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.

A hundred times I wanted to kill myself, but I stil loved life. This ridiculous foible is perhaps one of our most disasterous inclinations. For is there anything more stupid than to want to bear conntinually a burden that we always want to throw to the ground? To regard our being with horror, and to cling to our being? In fine, to caress the serpent that devours us until it has eaten our hearts. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.

He who said that we are born, live, and die without knowing how, said a great truth. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears. 1775.


LOVE

A budding and resisted passion exploaded, a satisfied love knows how to hide itself. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

When one is loved by a beautiful woman... one always gets out of trouble in this world. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

Passions have symptoms that cannot be mistaken. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

When a man is in love, jealous, and whipped by the Inquisition, he is out of his mind. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


MAN

He then visualized men as they really are, insects devouring one another on a little atom of mud. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

Inexplicable humans... how can you combine so much baseness and so much greatness, so many virtues and so many crimes? - Voltaire, The World as It Is, 1748.

Man was born to live in the convulsions of anxiety or the lethargy of boredom. - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.

I know I am among civilized men because they are fighting so savagely. - Voltaire.

Oh, what an affliction to be without testicles! - Voltaire, Candide, 1759.


MISFORTUNE

Private misfortunes make up the general good; so that the more private misfortunes there are, the more all is well. Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


MONARCHY

By all the greatest crimes
Established on the throne
In these our peaceful times
He is the foe alone.
- Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

Where there is nothing, the King loses his rights. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


MORALE

The toilet has so much power that diarrhea often makes a man pusillanimous. Dysentery takes away courage. Do not propose to a man weakened by insomnia, by a slow fever, and by fifty putrid evacuations, to go and attack an enemy in broad daylight. That is why I cannot believe that our whole army had dysentery at the battle of Agincourt, as it is said, and that they won the victory pants down. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears. 1775.


NATURE

Animals have these advantages over man: they never hear the clock strike, they die without any idea of death, they have no theologians to instruct them, their last moments are not disturbed by unwelcome and unpleasant ceremonies, their funerals cost them nothing, and no one starts lawsuits over their wills. - Voltaire, to Count de Schomberg. August 31, 1769.


OPPRESSION

How do there come to be so many men who for so little money make themselves the persecutors, the satellites, the executioners of other men? With what inhuman indifference a man in high position signs an order for the destruction of a family, and with what still more barbaric joy mercenaries carry it out! - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


PAIN

Secret griefs are even more cruel than public miseries. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


PATRIOTISM

Whoever serves his country well has no need of ancestors. - Voltaire, Mérope, 1743.


PEACE

Meanwhile peace was declared. The leaders of both armies, neither of whom had won the victory, but who in their own interest alone had caused the bloodshed of so many of their fellow men, went to their courts to intrigue for rewards. - Voltaire, The World As It Is. 1748.


THE PEOPLE

To succeed in chaining the crowd you must seem to wear the same fetters. - Voltaire.

The public is a ferocious beat; one must either chain it up or flee from it. - Voltaire, to Mlle. Quinault. August 16, 1748.


PHILOSOPHY

To overturn the colossus, we need only five or six philosophers who understand each other. - Voltaire.


POETRY

Impromptu verses are never good in the eyes of anyone but the lady in whose honor they are composed. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


POLITICAL APPOINTMENTS

Here is the Minister of War I would choose: I would want a man of the highest birth, because he gives orders to the nobility. I would require him to have been an officer himself, to have come up through all the ranks, to be at least Lieutenant-General of the Armies and worthy to be a Marshall of France. For is it not necessary for him to have served in person, the better to know the details of the service? And won't the officers obey a hundred times more cheerfully a man of war who like themselves has manifested courage than an armchair strategist who can at most only guess at the operations of a campaign, however good a mind he may have? - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


POLITICIANS & STATESMEN

I presume that in general those who meddle with public affairs sometimes perish miserably, and that they deserve it. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.

He [the governor] spoke to men with the noblest disdain, bearing his nose so high, raising his voice so pitilessly, assuming so imposing a tone, affecting so lofty a bearing, that all who addressed him were tempted to give him a beating. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


PRIVILEGE

What have you done to have so much? You've hardly given yourself the trouble to be born and that's about it: for the rest you're an ordinary person while I damn it, lost in the anonymous crowd, have had to use all my science and craft just to survive. - Voltaire, Figaro.


QUOTATIONS

It is essential to quote what we do not understand at all in the language we understand the least. - Voltaire, Micromegas, 1752.


REASON

Many are destined to reason wrongly; other, not to reason at all; and others, to persecute those who do reason. - Voltaire.


RELIGION

I want my attorney, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, and I think I shall then be robbed and cuckolded less often. - Voltaire.

For if God can change nothing in the affairs of this world, what is the use of singing his praises, what is the use of addressing prayers to him? - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears, 1775.

Men have always sought to learn how the soul acts on the body. We should have learned first whether we had a soul. Either God has made us this present, or he has communicated the equivalent to us. However he may have gone about it, we are in his hands. He is our master, that is all I know. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears, 1775.


RIGHTS

I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.- Voltaire.


SLANDER

Every day it was new accusations; the first is repulsed, the second brushes you, the third wounds, the fourth kills. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


SOLDIERS & SAILORS

“By all the Gods!” said the soldier, “I know of nothing about it. It is none of my business; my trade is to kill and be killed to earn my living; it makes no difference whom I serve. Indeed I might well go over to the Indian camp tomorrow, for people say they give their soldiers a copper half-drachma a day more than we get in this cursed service of Persia. If you want to know why we are fighting, talk to my captain. - Voltaire, The World As It Is. 1748.

The child she would have born might have been a cabin-boy, become an admiral, won a naval battle at the mouth of the Ganges and completed the dethroning of the Grand Mogul. That alone would have changed the constitution of the universe. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears,1775.

The first who was king was a successful soldier. He who serves well his country has no need of ancestors. - Voltaire, Mérope, 1743.


SUCCESS

When you don't get your due in one world you find it in another. It is a very great pleasure to see and do new things. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


THOUGHT

All thinking beings are different, and at bottom they are all alike by gift of thought. - Voltaire, Micromegas, 1752.


TRUTH

I have an instinct for loving the truth; but only an instinct. - Voltaire.

There are truths that are not for all men, nor for all occasions. - Voltaire, to Cardinal de Bernis. 1761.

All men are agreed on the truth when it is demonstrated, but they are all too divided over obscure truths. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.

I am afraid the truth may be a very small thing. In mathematics we have performed prodigies that would astound Apollonius and Archimedes and make them our pupils; but in Metaphysics, what have we discovered? Our ignorance. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears, 1775.


TYRANNY

The gods refuse the prayers of a king turned tyrant. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


VANITY

Self-love is a balloon inflated with wind, whence tempests emerge when it has been pricked. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.


VIRTUE

O virtue! of what use have you been to me?... All the good I have done has always been a curse to me, and I have been raised to the pinnacle of greatness only to fall into the most horrible abyss of misfortune. If I had been wicked, like so many others, I would be happy like them. - Voltaire, Zadig. 1747.

Nothing encourages virtuous actions more than having as witness and judge of one’s conduct a mistress whose esteem one wants to deserve. - Voltaire, The World As It Is. 1748.


WAR

When I cast my eyes over this globe, or rather over this globule, I think that God has abandoned it to some maleficent being.... I have hardly seen a town that did not desire the ruin of the neighboring town, never a family that did not want to exterminate some other family. Every day the weak loathe the powerful treat them like flocks whose wool and flesh are for sale, a million regimented assassins, ranging from one end of Europe to the other, practice murder and brigandage with discipline to earn their bread, because there is no more honest occupation; and in the towns that seem to enjoy peace and where the arts flourish, men are devoured with more envy, cares, and anxieties than the scourges suffered by a town besieged. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.

Constipation has sometimes produced the bloodiest scenes. My grandfather, who died a centenarian, was Cromwell's apothecary; he has often told me that Cromwell had not been to the toilet for a week when he had his king's head cut off. - Voltaire, Count Chesterfield's Ears, 1775.

Do you realize, for example, that at this moment when I am speaking to you there are a hundred thousand madmen of our species covered with hats killing a hundred thousand other animals covered with turbans, or being massacred by them, and that over almost all the earth that is how people have behaved from time immemorial? - Voltaire, Micromegas. 1752.


WIT

A witty saying proves nothing. - Voltaire.


WOMEN

It must be admitted that God made women only to tame men. - Voltaire, Ingenuous. 1767.


WORK

Work keeps away three great evils: boredom, vice, and need. - Voltaire, Candide. 1759.


WRITING

To hold a pen is to be at war. - Voltaire, to Mme. d’Angental, October 4, 1748.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: candide; government; man; philosophy; politics; quotations; voltaire; war
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To: PsyOp
"A long dispute means both parties are wrong."
- Voltaire.

Like anti-gun and Second Amendment?...

Abortion and Pro-Life?...

The West and Islam?...

Capitalism and Socialism?...

Rocky and Bullwinkle vs. Boris & Natasha...?

Both wrong?...

--Boris

21 posted on 05/12/2002 6:16:11 PM PDT by boris
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To: boris
RE: #21. I just post them - I don't necessarily agree with them all. And remember, this is Voltaire, so it is probably a tounge-in-cheek statement which means the opposite.
22 posted on 05/12/2002 6:42:09 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: sleavelessinseattle
And thank your MOM for me! She done good...

Done! Do the same for yours from me. Moms just don't get enough credit, no matter how hard we try!

23 posted on 05/12/2002 6:45:10 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: conserve-it
you know the rest.

All too well, I'm afraid.

24 posted on 05/12/2002 6:48:19 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: Squantos
You ever read stuff by Sir Richard Francis Burton ?

Just bits and pieces, but I've liked what I've read and have a few qoutes hidden in computer.

25 posted on 05/12/2002 6:51:29 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp
Just another vitriolic frenchman famous for attacking christianity. His attacks were both frequent and vicious. I suppose today his writings would be styled "higher criticism." His pathetic attempt to destroy the authenticity and reliability of the Bible is laughable. And his stout denials of such things as miracles and the efficacy of prayer only illustrate his ignorance. He once commented: “It took 12 men to originate the Christian religion, but it will take but one to eliminate it. Within fifty years from now the only Bible will be in museums."

LOL. How highly he thought of himself! What a joke.

26 posted on 05/12/2002 7:31:19 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PsyOp
Please add me to your ping list.
27 posted on 05/12/2002 7:37:37 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: JMJ333
What Voltaire attacked with regard to Christianity was not so much the religion itself (though I am sure he was not fond of the Church), but the role of the Church in the government, as well as the abuses of power, and of the French people, by both the Manarchy and the Church that sanctioned that Monarchy.

Context is everything. I would suspect that if you were a Protestant Christain who had been persecuted for being a blasphemer, or a writer persecuted, with the Church's blessing, because you criticised the King - you too might develop a cynical attitude towards the Church, or even religion in general.

Lumping Voltaire in with the current generation of athiests and religion bashers is not fair. And his writings helped point out the reasons why a separation between church and state was needed. His writings and criticisms of the Church helped remind our lawmakers of what they needed to do 40 years later when drafting the Constitution. He engaged in a very effective satire from which no form of pomposity and power, church or state, escaped.

28 posted on 05/12/2002 7:49:09 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: Polybius
Consider yourself added.
29 posted on 05/12/2002 7:50:03 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp
Context is everything. I would suspect that if you were a Protestant Christain who had been persecuted for being a blasphemer, or a writer persecuted, with the Church's blessing, because you criticised the King - you too might develop a cynical attitude towards the Church, or even religion in general.

Indeed context is everything. We can go back and outline why the French revolution occured if you wish, but that doesn't give Voltaire the right to try and destroy Christianity--which he did.

In 1765, he began what would consume the remainder of his life--his attacks upon the Christian religion. One of his first documents on this theme was his Treatise on Toleration, which attacked the Catholic Church followed by an endless bonanza of pamphlets, histories, dialogues, letters, catechisms, diatribes, squibs, sermons, verses, tales, fables, commentaries and essays, under Voltaire’s own name and under a hundred pseudonyms—the most astonishing pell-mell of propaganda ever put out by one man, in my not so humble opinion.

Lumping Voltaire in with the current generation of athiests and religion bashers is not fair. And his writings helped point out the reasons why a separation between church and state was needed. His writings and criticisms of the Church helped remind our lawmakers of what they needed to do 40 years later when drafting the Constitution. He engaged in a very effective satire from which no form of pomposity and power, church or state, escaped.

Oh, I disagree. He fits in nicely with todays materialists. And he is remembered much more for his hate for my religion than any satire or political thought his little mind ever thought up.

30 posted on 05/12/2002 8:06:55 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
but that doesn't give Voltaire the right to try and destroy Christianity--which he did.

For someone you have such little regard for, you're sure giving him a lot of credit. Bu then the Catholic church did not need much help in that regard, which is why there was a reformation.

And he is remembered much more for his hate for my religion

And therein lies the crux of your argument. I keep forgetting that the Pope is infalible, and those that criticise anything Catholic are bashers! My bad. Say, how's Cardinal Law these days?

31 posted on 05/12/2002 9:02:10 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp; JMJ333
Excellent comeback to refute the facts presented in post #30....and it only took you an hour to develop your sarcastic, bigoted drivel.

Congratulations!

32 posted on 05/12/2002 9:13:29 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: PsyOp
For someone you have such little regard for, you're sure giving him a lot of credit. Bu then the Catholic church did not need much help in that regard, which is why there was a reformation.

It wasn't a reformation, it was a revolt. See my profile. Thanks.

Also, I am only giving credit to Voltaire's mass achievments in trying to tear down the Christian religion. You can try and change the subject by deflecting criticism on the current scandals in my church, but the facts--his mass amount of literature--speak otherwise.

And he is remembered much more for his hate for my religion

And therein lies the crux of your argument. I keep forgetting that the Pope is infalible, and those that criticise anything Catholic are bashers! My bad. Say, how's Cardinal Law these days?

Love those bait and switch tactics. If you want my opinion of the attacks coming from within and without you can read my opinion Here. Or you can try to stay on topic.

33 posted on 05/12/2002 9:15:14 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: EODGUY
1. The reply took about 30 sec.
2. I am not bigoted by, for, or against Catholics. Many of my favorite reletives are Catholic. The difference between you and 333 is that they can actualy discuss criticism of the problems of the Church and those who criticise it without getting shrill and accusing people of being accused of being a bigot or Catholic basher.
3. Pointing out bigotry (which is what Voltaire did) does not make me a bigot.
4. The fact that your buttons are so easily pushed, which was the purpose of my post, proves that. Stop being so thin-skinned and you will become a better advocate of your position.
34 posted on 05/12/2002 9:25:32 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp
And what does papal infallibility and criticism have to do with anything? Criticize scandal and corruption all you want--but I take exception with petty minded fools who think they can destroy Christianity.

And as long as were on the subject, papal infallibility...What it is and what it isn't.

35 posted on 05/12/2002 9:27:13 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PsyOp; JMJ333
2. I am not bigoted by, for, or against Catholics. Many of my favorite reletives are Catholic. The difference between you and 333 is that they can actualy discuss criticism of the problems of the Church and those who criticise it without getting shrill and accusing people of being accused of being a bigot or Catholic basher.

I love the line that your proof of not being bigoted (which is proven by your sarcastic comments about Papal infalibility, of which you clearly know nothing) is that your favorite relatives are Catholic. Congratulations.

Your problem is staying focused on the argument at hand. You prove your bigotry by turning a discussion into an indictment of the entire Catholic Church, and (you will have to go back and read your previous post) equating our religion with Papal infalibility.

Anytime you want to have a discussion on a framed, focused aspect of the Catholic faith without resorting to bigotry and then whining victimhood when called on your bias, give me a call.

36 posted on 05/12/2002 9:39:17 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: JMJ333
And as long as were on the subject, papal infallibility...

And as an astute Papal scholar, I'm sure you know that Vatican II's definition was not always the prevailing definition (I know, I'm not Catholic, so you presume I know nothing of the religion and theology and history behind it).

In the past (most of the Church's history, in fact), the Pope was considered Infallible. That was especially true in Voltaire's day. If you did not agree with the Pope, you were a Heritic (a word I noticed that you used in the post you directed me to). Apparantly you believe that anyone who is not Catholic is one, or you would have chosen your words more carefully.

Do you believe that Heretics (i.e. non-Catholics) will go to hell, or some lesser level of perdition? Because that is what being a "heretic" means.

37 posted on 05/12/2002 9:45:54 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: EODGUY
You prove your bigotry by turning a discussion into an indictment of the entire Catholic Church.

I did no such thing. Putting words in my mouth is disingenuous.

38 posted on 05/12/2002 9:49:18 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: PsyOp
And as an astute Papal scholar, I'm sure you know that Vatican II's definition was not always the prevailing definition (I know, I'm not Catholic, so you presume I know nothing of the religion and theology and history behind it).

I think that link traced the roots to early Christianity quite succinctly, but you have to read further than the part of Vatican II to see it. I also don't presume anything about your knowledge. And I don't claim to be a papal scholar, just someone who fiercly loves her religion.

In the past (most of the Church's history, in fact), the Pope was considered Infallible. That was especially true in Voltaire's day. If you did not agree with the Pope, you were a Heritic (a word I noticed that you used in the post you directed me to). Apparantly you believe that anyone who is not Catholic is one, or you would have chosen your words more carefully.

You didn't read the link otherwise you would understand that the statement you made just isn't true. And quit acting as if I am out to get you. I'm not. I directed you to that post because you got off topic and I wanted to defend the church against the scandal topic.

Do you believe that Heretics (i.e. non-Catholics) will go to hell, or some lesser level of perdition? Because that is what being a "heretic" means.

No, I don't believe that non-Catholics are going to hell. I am interested though in truth and I fight for what I think is right concerning doctrine.

Now, as for Voltaire, his words speak for themselves. A search of google will prove me correct.

I have had fun debating. I'm turning in for the night. Regards.

39 posted on 05/12/2002 9:58:28 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: PsyOp
"To: JMJ333

but that doesn't give Voltaire the right to try and destroy Christianity--which he did.

For someone you have such little regard for, you're sure giving him a lot of credit.

Bu then the Catholic church did not need much help in that regard, which is why there was a reformation.

And he is remembered much more for his hate for my religion

And therein lies the crux of your argument. I keep forgetting that the Pope is infalible, and those that criticise anything Catholic are bashers! My bad. Say, how's Cardinal Law these days?

31 posted on 5/12/02 9:02 PM Pacific by PsyOp [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

You should really read your comments before denying your bigotry, your anti-Catholic venom exudes from the comments quoted above. You are disengenuous. Have a good evening.

40 posted on 05/12/2002 10:08:33 PM PDT by EODGUY
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