Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A lesson for GOP panderers
TownHall.com ^ | Wednesday, May 8, 2002 | by Michelle Malkin

Posted on 05/08/2002 2:18:56 AM PDT by JohnHuang2

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-107 next last
To: JohnHuang2
If an 18-year-old boy can stand up and communicate a sensible and unapologetic message to foreign residents -- speak English, respect our laws, love our country, or stay out -- why can't the GOP?

This kid needs to be in Congress. Too bad he would have to wait 7 years before even contemplating a run.

Gotta love Michelle....glad to see that the Houston Chronicle publishes her articles once in a while.

41 posted on 05/11/2002 3:10:51 PM PDT by HennepinPrisoner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
If the commercial landscape industry wants American workers, they have to pay what an American will accept to do the job. There's no shortage of American workers that will work for a decent wage and benefits. You're perpetuating a myth.

We can deport all of the illegal aliens and we can seal the borders. It is doable. The myth that's it's undoable is another myth you're perpetuating.

Sabertooth has posted a pretty good plan in which he outlines how the illegal aliens will deport themselves.

Give the illegal aliens 6 months to sell everything, they don't want to take with them, and return to their home countries. Make it clear that every illegal alien apprehended after that date will forfeit all.

In the meantime, we enforce all of the laws presently on the books against employing illegal aliens. Give employers fines and jail time for the worst offenders.

We spend $70 billion dollars a year for social services for illegal aliens. What kind of walls could we build along our borders for $70 billion dollars?

Happy Mother's Day! A day in advance.

42 posted on 05/11/2002 3:47:06 PM PDT by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
It is possible to build physical barriers (fences and walls) along the borders and this country CAN afford it. We may not reach an absolute zero of border-jumpers but we could put a major dent in the thousands per day who are entering now.

The argument that America cannot operate without 10 million illegal aliens is absolutely ridiculous. How did we manage for over 200 years?

I personally know Americans out of work who would appreciate more jobs being available to them.

The price of labor in a free market determines who will agree to do work. To say American citizens will not do landscaping work leaves out the question - What will the employer pay to do that work? If the wage reaches a level at which an American citizen can support his/her family, you'll have all the help you need. The importing of illegal labor interferes with the free market price of labor and artificially depresses it.

Have you ever noticed how people are drawn to jobs paying "good money?"

Yes, you'll have to smuggle in illegal aliens willing to live 20 to a house and sleep on the floor to get people to work below a free-market wage.

43 posted on 05/11/2002 4:04:18 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
The silence is deafening. That is telling, in and of itself, as a reply.

LOL.

44 posted on 05/11/2002 4:53:57 PM PDT by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
How much will you pay to have your yard mowed? When you raise the price of labor beyond a certain point, the service becomes too expensive for most people.

My son's company pays good wages..far above the average. The fact is that here in Indiana we do not have enough people to supply the industry. Those people who are willing to do landscape work can also choose between roofing, construction, and a host of other semi-skilled jobs. We don't have enough PEOPLE. The reason we are getting Hispanics here is because they can get better wages than in Texas, for goodness sake, and they have little or no competition. We have low unemployment here. They are not taking people's jobs.

My husband is having a hard time trying to hire guys to do drafting and engineeering work for his company...and at 20 dollars per hour. Believe you me, if he could find an immigrant who could do the work he would hire him immediately.

So that is the situation here in Indiana. I understand than the border states are dealing with a more serious problem. I am sympathetic, and I think something needs to be done. I do not think a fence is the answer...who is going to patrol it once it is built? Who is going to pay for those thousands of people needed to patrol it? Where are you going to find those people?

A better solution to me is to get the Mexican economy prosperous enough that people stay at home.

47 posted on 05/11/2002 7:31:41 PM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
Landscape is a service industry. If you raise wages beyond a certain point (and commercial landscape pays far beyond the minimum wage, by the way) people will forgo the service, and either let it go or do it themselves.

As I said in my previous post to NoControllingLegalAuthoriity, the shortage we have here in Indiana is people. We simply do not have enough people to staff all the service industries. We would welcome people who would want to re-locate here from other states. So far, the only immigrants we get in any numbers seem to be Hispanics.

The free market works two ways. Yes, you raise wages enough to attract American workers. HOWEVER, if your costs go too high, you go out of business.

Don't quote Sabertooth to me. I do not respect his attitude about this situation.

48 posted on 05/11/2002 7:38:21 PM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple;sarcasm
My husband is having a hard time trying to hire guys to do drafting and engineeering work for his company...and at 20 dollars per hour. Believe you me, if he could find an immigrant who could do the work he would hire him immediately.

Lady, its no wonder your husband is having problems hiring drafting and engineering people to work for his company at 20 dollars an hour. I made almost that much money an hour in the mid 60's as a rookie. I wouldn't get out of bed for any kind of job that pays less than 20 dollars an hour.

Am I missing something here?

49 posted on 05/11/2002 7:51:01 PM PDT by Brownie74
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
My experiences with illegals was in Arizona, where I thought it was strange that a "nation of laws" would tolerate such lawlessness. Here in NY though where I am there's very few illegals - yet. In fact our population is actually shrinking. But there are still landscaping companies who have no problems finding workers, the fast food places are all staffed, mostly with white and black kids, the service industries are not begging for workers. I've been to Indiana and it isn't much different than NY in terms of demographics. What are we doing different that we are getting along fine without massive numbers of illegals, but you can't do without them?
50 posted on 05/11/2002 7:56:56 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
I am not a nativist or immigrant basher, but the issue I don't think should turn on whether or not folks can get a service at an "affordable" price. How about the "need" to import more folks that will work at lower wages so that we can have "affordable" restaurants? Part of a progressing country is phasing out lower paying jobs. As wages rise for landscaping services, they will grow more mechanized, and landscaping design will be made for less labor intensive maintenance. Here in Southern California, where we have lots of low wage immigrant labor, both legal and illegal, I must say that due to that, and climate, and lots of folks with money to burn, we probably have the most beautiful and sophisticated landscaping design in the world. Just drive down a street in Beverly Hills sometime, or even down my street.

By the way, I love landscaping. It is one of my great pleasures to savor it when it is well done.

In any event, the case for immigration, and what to do about illegals, should rest on other grounds. It should be more focused on the long term consequences. And on that, I don't think the Hispanic influx has nearly as grim the consequences as most here at FR do. But that doesn't mean it should necessarily be celebrated without nuance or qualification.

51 posted on 05/11/2002 7:57:37 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: JohnHuang2
Are Republican leaders so afraid of being labeled "racists," and so desperate for votes, that they'll continue to sell out their commitment to the rule of law -- and our national security with it?

Yes,but it's more about them maintaining personal power than anything else. They are ready to do anything to keep themselves in power,and if that hurts the country,too bad.

52 posted on 05/11/2002 8:01:32 PM PDT by sneakypete
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rodney King
. Better to win those votes, to elect more Republicans, to stem the flow.

There is no purpose to working to elect Republicans if you can't tell the difference between them and leftist Dims.

53 posted on 05/11/2002 8:03:53 PM PDT by sneakypete
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: uncbob
I don't know who is worse Powell or Rove

The man who hired them both.

54 posted on 05/11/2002 8:05:12 PM PDT by sneakypete
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Vallandigham
Thanks for the vote of confidence. But the real victory will come when illegals are sent packing. I can't believe were even debating the issue. What other nation in the world tolerates this?
55 posted on 05/11/2002 8:09:28 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
One other thought here. There is a class component to all of this. Your standard of living and mine is increased by this influx. It is not clear that workers that compete with these folks is. In fact, it is probably degraded. Now to the extent that this serves as a cold shower, and forces the natives to improve their skills, that might not be all bad. To the extent it sends them into a proletarian status, that is problematical. In Southern California, the black proletariat seems to be gradually disappearing. Are they disappearing due to the cold shower treatement, or are they just decamping to elsewhere, or some of both? It would be great to see some longer term secular trend studies on this.
56 posted on 05/11/2002 8:11:36 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Reaganwuzthebest
I don't know. Perhaps i is because a lot of young people leave this state for more glamorous environs. Perhaps it is because we have an expanding economy that is just now desiring services. I don't have a good answer; I only know what the conditions are.

I have a friend whose son is home from college for the summer. He has three job offers...in gardening, helping a vet, and food service. Twenty years ago he would have been lucky to find one job for the summer.

This is only anecdotal evidence. If I have some time next week I will search out some statistics from the State Labor Department and see if I can figure it out.

However, trust me when I say that most companies here, even McDonalds, are not paying minimum wage.

57 posted on 05/11/2002 8:11:58 PM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
Did you read Sabertooth's plan? Do you see how it would work to deport every illegal alien in the USA? Do you agree that we could build walls and police our borders with $70 billion dollars?

You asked for someone to offer a workable solution to our immigration problem and here it is, but you don't like Sabertooth, so you'll ignore it.

As far as your landscaping crisis in Indiana goes, I look at it like this. If you are trying to operate a business that relies heavily on new immigrant labor (mostly illegal), because you can't pay enough, with benefits, to attract American workers, get a different business. Let people do it themselves or let it go.

To allow an endless wave of otherwise un-needed immigrants into the country, that will further bankrupt our social services, to perform such a non-essential service is insane.

You folks have got to stop thinking of just yourselves.

If your customers don't want to pay what it costs to get the job done, with benefits, by Americans then forget it.

58 posted on 05/11/2002 8:12:20 PM PDT by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
We have more 280 million people in the United States. The unemployment rate was just measured at the highest its been in more than seven years. How can there be a shortage of unskilled or semi-skilled labor in the United States?

We are closing plants all over the United States and sending that work to China, Mexico and other places. Something doesn't make sense.

I travel extensively throughout Tennessee and I am hearing from people every day who were employed in small manufacturing plants for years and suddenly find themselves out of work due to a closed plant and their jobs sent elsewhere.

59 posted on 05/11/2002 8:18:33 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
We are closing plants all over the United States and sending that work to China, Mexico and other places

That is a most healthy sign of a maturing and prosperous economy. That is about the phase out of lower paying jobs. That is a good thing. We simply shouldn't be in the business of doing low value added work.

60 posted on 05/11/2002 8:23:01 PM PDT by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-107 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson