A mutiny by priests and laity against the cardinal (and the church)? Voice of the Faithful

The Boston Herald ^ | April 30, 2002 | by Tom Mashberg and Eric Convey

[chatham]

It would be really nice to see a revolution of Good Priests who can effect change from the inside of the church.

Cardinal Law looks a little like Humpty Dumpty at the moment and he deserves the position.

It certainly looks like the VOTF group is gaining momentum, I hope so.

[uncbob]

So, we need the priests and catechists to step up to the plate and teach morals and preach on sin and salvation and repentance. At least if parishioners go, they won't go in ignorance.

Trouble is those parishoners almost universally ignore what was and is one of the Church's main tenets of the 20th century, that birth control is a sin.

When you already have this many people ignoring a loudly proclaimed facet of the teaching of the Popes it will not be that hard to get them to break away

[chatham]

I really love the Name of the Pastor of St. Michael's in Lowell.

Rev. Al Capone couldn't be more appropriate.

God sure does work in Mysterious ways..

[grania]

What buisness does the Vatican have trying to stop Israel from going after terrorist in its own territory?

That Church is the birthplace of Christ...it's god's territory.

[american colleen]

It certainly looks like the VOTF group is gaining momentum, I hope so.

I thought the same as you, in fact, I even registered at their web site last month - I was going nuts trying to figure out what I could do to help the Church and VOTF sounded like it was a group that upheld Church teaching. But, the more I hear about them, the more I realize that in fact, they are no different from the other *agents* for change groups. VOTF does not tackle "controversial issues" -homosexuality, married priests or the ordination of women, and that is a tacit agreement with those issues.

One of the reasons that we are in the predicament that we are in is that the Cardinals have listened to the laity (and I mean psycologists, psychiatrists including non-Catholics) and have gone "PC" over the past 30 - 40 years instead of remaining true to Church teaching. The evil was spawned by the relaxing of Church teaching and admitting dissenters into the seminaries and colleges.

Look at the Voice of the Faithful website - NO WHERE does it state that it is faithful to the teaching of the Catholic Church. In fact, its motto is:

"Keep the Faith, Change the Church"

Now, what does that mean? Sounds like some of the "gay Catholic" sites.

[american colleen]

*ping*

[Feldkurat_Katz]

Scary. Anyone else wondering about a schism between the Roman Catholic Church in America and the American Catholic Church?

I'm for the schism and I'll stay with Rome!

[history_matters]

I have been investigating VOTF and have talked with a few organizers. This organization is not for conservative Catholics who love Peter and the Church. There are many conservative Catholics who are getting sucked in by this group, but if you dig underneath it a bit you find the same AmChurch agenda grinding on.

We do need Counter-Reformation II, and we have need of souls like St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and St. Catherine of Siena. Mother Angelica has certainly led the vanguard in trying to rescue the Church in America from the AmChurch evildoers.

More later.....

[Matchett-PI]

"The Reformation, ... came out of sincere righteous anger and indignation at very real abuses in the Church and frustration at all attempts to reform the Church from within. American Catholics have never much been given to learning about the Reformation, perhaps now would be a good time for both the hierarchy and laity to really read what the Protestants and their historians were saying .."

One could begin HERE and HERE

[chatham]

The basic Church does not need changing but the Management needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom.

The Hierarchy needs a Purge and Purification to excise the Rot and get back to the basics the Church was built upon.

Because of your post I will be a little more wary of the goals of Votf.Thanks

[chatham]

The basic Church does not need changing but the Management needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom.

The Hierarchy needs a Purge and Purification to excise the Rot and get back to the basics the Church was built upon.

Because of your post I will be a little more wary of the goals of Votf.Thanks

[weikel]

Everything is God's territory doesn't mean that any part of it can be allowed to be a terrorist sanctuary...

[patent]

>>>Are we seeing the beginning of Counter-Reformation II?

Not here, no. I don't think there are any orthodox Catholics in Wellesely, having lived right next door. They all traveled to the Church I went to. The article claims they are trying to voice the concerns of conservative Catholics and mainstream Catholics. Well, out in Boston a mainstream Catholic is a cafeteria Catholic who actually believes 25% of what the Church teaches. The liberals are the ones who believe 1% or more, but can't quite get enough momentum to leave the Church.

There is a reason this group isn't voicing its views on "gay, married or female priests." Can you imagine an orthodox Catholic who has trouble articulating positions on gay or female priests? Married may be debatable, but not the other two, at least for a Catholic.

I do see the counter reformation II coming, but not here.

patent

[saradippity]

Thanks for the ping.It has been clear for some time that we have had two churches co-existing within the structure of the Roman Catholic Church.For purposes of clarity,I call one the Catholic Church and the other the catholic church. Years ago Thomas Sowell wrote a wonderful book called a "Conflict in Visions". He said it was pretty easy after observing people and the causes they espoused to determine what their vision of man was.An organization with a conflict in vision could not long endure. This is what we have in the Church right now,a major conflict in visions.

The Catholic Church was established by Christ and is in union with the Pope and Magisterium.It is often known as the Body of Christ and is composed of the People of God in the world.The adherents consider themselves orthodox,conservative and/or traditional,they hold to the 2000 year old teachings of the Church,they view Truth as absolute,subject to discernment and development as man has more tools available to probe the universe.They see God as Triune,unchanging,personal,transcendent;a creator endowed with omnipotent,omnipresent and omniscient qualities that made us to know,love and serve Him and to be with Him forever in heaven.

The catholic church establishes christ in accordance with the desires of the most powerful of the magisterium of the people.The adherents consider themselves to be "progressive",marxist,and/or democratic,they hold to ever changing "truths"established by the whim of the people.They see god made in man's image and subject to change based on the feelings of the people.The god they have designed,at this time,is very loving and merciful and good and wants man to enjoy himself in this world because it's the only thing man can be sure of.However,if there is more it will be good and all will go there.

Succinctly,we have the Catholic Church and God's People on earth or the catholic church and the "godpeoples" on earth.I think thats what the choice is going to boil down to as it becomes increasingly clear that we have A CONFLICT OF VISIONS.

I do think that if Catholics start praying and thinking and proclaiming and acting in accordance with Catholic teaching,the ring of Truth will hit a lot of the people sleeping in the pews between the eyes and the choice they will make will surprise the "enemy".

[american colleen]

Check this out.