Old ways die hard

US News and World Report ^ | Web exclusive 4/19/02 | By Michael Barone

[zarf]

of course they did!! They murdered the natives if they didn't convert to the dictun of the Pope and take a vow of loyalty to the Queen.

Of all the European countries that get off easy, considering the brutality of their colonialism, it's Spain.

[TMD]

Actually it's St. Helena. In the SF Bay Area, our illustrious liberal rag the SJ Mercury News had an article last week complaining that not enough doctors have interpretors for patients who do not speak english. So now it's the doctors fault that people who refuse to learn english aren't getting treated. It seems pretty irresponsible (the non-english speaking patients, not the doctors) to me- especially if they have children.

I just spent a week at Children's Hospital in LA with a friend whose daughter is critically ill.
(See prayer request at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/665591/posts?page=1,50)
I was really disgusted by all the welfare mothers coming for their "free" health care while chattering away on their cell phones. I thought I had been transported to Mexico. My friend and her husband have been out of work since August, but they were responsible enough to purchase health insurance.

[ventana]

BTW, all my aforementioned comments notwithstanding, on topic: bilingual education is a theft of true opportunity for those unfortunate enough to be duped wittingly or otherwise into experiencing it, vis a vis their children. V's wife.

[zarf]

My comments notwithstanding, I'm all for bilingual education for American, English speaking students. It will only create a stronger more literate society.

[AzJP]

Meanwhile, back to the start of all this, from my experience more people will move because of their perception of politicians and political and personal security than the ethnic makeup of neighbors. Argueable, but that's my experience

If you are looking for boneheads in California, you'll find more quicker by looking for politicians and school boards than you will by ethnic profiling.

Which might be why Catholic schools are popular in SoCal. Even among gringos of all colors and non-Catholics.

IMHO

[CatoRenasci]

Well, I said endemic, recognizing as you do that monolithic generalizations may be ill-advised. I still think your attack was not on his positions, but on his person, which qualifies as ad hominem. I think your argument would have been stronger without the personal aspect.

[CatoRenasci]

St. Helena. right. Napa County same same as Healdsburg. We used to play tennis and baseball against St. Helena (as well as Healdsburg) when I was in high school in Sonoma County back in the old stone age of the mid-60's. Back when the hispanics were called Mexicans, were either long time legal residents or braceros, and the bad ones were called pachucos. Back when there were only a couple of dozen wineries, everyone knew everyone else, and it was easy for a kid who family was in the business to score a case of dago red or, if ones taste was refined, a few bottles of '58 BV reserve cabernet or Inglenook cask or Martini special selection. The good old days.

My prayers for your sister's child.

[ventana]

How?

[Dan from Michigan]

She says that in 1999 Lopez said that he would get rid of Anglos in the system. And, Gonzalez says: "Last night he said he would get Spanish at the junior high schools and high schools." Her husband adds, "They [the kids] will get jobs in the fields or in the car wash."

Someone please translate that to Spanish and send that to every Santa Ana household in both languages.

One of my neighbor's a couple years back was Latino. He was from Chicago and his parents were from Mexico(legally). He can speak both English and Spanish without any problem at all, and his parents also made sure that both they and he learned ENGLISH. They are doing alright for themselves as well.

And needless to say, they have a big problem with those that refuse to learn English, and probably a bigger problem with people like Gonzalez here who think all these students are good for is working at the car wash.

[Dan from Michigan]

you'll find more quicker by looking for politicians and school boards than you will by ethnic profiling

Ain't that true.

[Clemenza]

Most of the Hispanics you have in Greenwich are poor/lower middle class Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. The upper classes of Latin America tend to go to Coral Gables and Weston, Florida. Remember that there is no HISPANIC race, as well. Most of the upper class throughout Latin America are as pale as you and I.

[Clemenza]

Actually you can trace it back to the Spanish. Spain did quite a bit of damage as it cut it's colonial swath through South, Central and North America.

Then how come most Latin Americans in Peru, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. of Amerindian or mixed ancestry. The average Mexican is racially more Indian than Spanish. If the Spaniards were so brutal, how come there are so few North Americans of American Indian heritage compared to Central and South America, in which most inhabitants (depending upon the country, of course) are either partly of 100% of Amerindian ancestry?

[Clemenza]

With a few exceptions, most Latin American immigrants are poorer than Asiatic immigrants. There parents are generally less educated. Comparing the children of a Japanese professional to those of a Mexican migrant worker is unfair.

[CaptRon]

Seems to me that learning the language of the country you're living in will be a huge advantage to these kids.

And you would be right, if your intent was to do well in your adopted country. Methinks the intent here is to keep your old language to use in the new country you plan on your adopted country becoming.

[CatoRenasci]

As a fifth generation Californian, well-versed in distinguishing among Californios, Spaniards, Chileans, Argentines, Mexicans and Mestizo Indians, I take your point. For the most part you're right, the 'hispanics' we get are are hardly descended from the flower of Castille or ancient Aragonnese families. Although some are: one lovely girl played field hockey with my daughter last year....

[TMD]

So are you saying that the child of a mexican immigrant would be unable to learn english if immersed in an english speaking classroom as a kindergartner? I think one of the problems is that people make excuses and have lower expectations for these kids.

One other personal example is a friend of mine who was born in Mexico and had 8 brothers. His parents wanted them all to succeed. He came here as a junior in high school, not speaking a word of english. His mother worked as a housekeeper and his father as a grounds keeper. Mario told me that he really had to work hard because he didn't know english and that he would have to read things 2 or 3 times to understand it. He and his 8 brothers all graduated from college. Mario is an engineer. He also married a woman from Mexico with a 7 year old daughter. She now speaks perfect english, as well.

We can have high expectations and expect kids to succeed or we can have low expectations and assume that kids won't succeed. A post from yesterday (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/674752/posts) illustrates societal pressures that perpetuate failure.