Posted on 04/27/2002 4:37:45 AM PDT by scripter
The police yesterday told me I can't use a gun in self defense on my own property or in my house. Here's the story from central California.
Besides weekly garbage pickup, once a year our city provides a time when we can put nearly anything on the curb and they'll pick it up for free. It's a great time to clean the house and garage of items that just don't fit in the garbage can and any item you don't want. This great service also creates an opportunity for anyone to look through your trash and take items they consider valuable.
I have no problem with folks looking for something they can use. What I have a problem with are folks in search of such items tearing open boxes, bags and throwing items of non interest in the street, on the sidewalk, and most of all, in my yard and on my lawn. Four times yesterday I had to clean up the area in front of my house where some folks made a complete mess.
We took a dinner break and came back outside through the garage to put more items on the curb. That's when I saw two guys making a huge mess of my neat pile of garbage. They had gone through nearly box and bag, ripping open anything they couldn't see through.
I yelled at them, saying "Hey! Knock it off, you're making a huge mess in front of my house." Now, maybe I could have been nicer, but this was the third of eventually four messes I had to clean up and I was getting irritated.
Upon hearing me yell, one man grabbed a wooden handled mop out of the pile and another grabbed a metal handled weed whacker and raised the items up in a threatening manner, stopped for a second and started walking into my garage.
At any given time I have numerous items that can be used as weapons in my garage, but to get to them in this situation, I'd have to run past my 6 year old son, pick something up and run back. My first concern was of my son. He would be in the middle had I grabbed anything in the garage. Instead I grabbed my son, closed, locked and dead bolted the door into the house leaving the big garage door open and called the police.
After explaining the situation, I asked the police if I could defend myself with a gun if they attacked me. The dispatcher said "No. A gun is no match for someone attacking with a mop and weed whacker and they would be there as soon as possible." Yeah, right. I looked out the window and both men were already gone. At least I had a description of the men and their car.
I tried to reason with the dispatcher, asking if I could use different items to defend myself. She said "I'm not going to get into this with you. This call is recorded" and said to call the police when anything like this happens.
"What if they're in my garage attacking me, in my house, can I then use my gun to defend myself" I sarcastically asked again. Getting irritated, she said "No" and repeated that a gun is not a matching weapon.
"If they come back, can I show the gun as a detterent?", I asked. "No" she said, "then you would be brandishing a weapon." I replied "Even on my own property? In my garage? From my front door?". "Yes", she answered. She asked if I wanted extra patrols (as if it would really happen), which I did request. Some kids told me a couple women stopped by after that and made a fourth mess of my garbage pile. Sigh.
I have never heard of this matching weapon "law" if it's even a law. Does anybody know California law for something like this? Is there any legal way to use a gun in self defense in my yard, in my garage and in my house when an attacker does not have a "matching weapon?"
Or, you could leave CA ...
Sorry I can't be of much help. The dispachter isn't a lawyer and doesn't play one on the telephone, and the legal pronouncements have no force of law. OTOH if you were to use a gun in self-defense in the next, oh, 20 years or so, whether it is legal or not, you can expect the transcript of this call to be played to your jury, "see, we even told this person it wasn't legal, which is why you should decide to convict."
Those items can be lethal weapons by definition and you are allowed to protect yourself my any means available if you fear for your life or safety OR fear for the life or safety of those persons in your home. BTW, this includes your vehicle.
Years ago, I had my garage door opener stolen from my car and used to enter my home. I grabbed one of my hand guns and ran to the garage and confronted the idiot.. He ran and I cussed at him but didn't fire. The deputy (35 minutes later) told me I would have been arrested if I had shot him. I thought bs and contacted the sheriff the next day who told me I had a right to protect my family and myself by any means but I could not fire at a "fleeing individual" because that was not threatening. Makes sense, I guess.
Defendant," I was in fear of my life."
Judge, "So you shot him 13 times?"
Defendant,"You honor, I was not counting, I simply shot until I no longer was in fear of my life."
End of story. That is the only response you should make in court as to why you offed the perp. No excuses, nothing made up, you simply were in fear of your life.
No throw away guns, no dragging or placing into 'more beleivable' locations or position, and above all, a rightious shoot. If you are in fear of your life, pull the trigger, and say so.
Ok, since you brought up the "throwaway trick" let's get down to it. It's called a planted gun. Be sure your attacker was armed with equal force. Use your imagination. Be creative. Think out of the box.
When your life is in immediate danger, save your-self, just use good judgement.
If they DA and police lose many self-defense cases they will quit arresting the victim.
I was thinking the same thing. I'm really leary of using my guns to defend myself at this point in our lives. I say that because we've almost completed the adoption process of our two boys through the county and I don't want something like this to end the process just before it's completed. I can imagine the social workers saying our home isn't safe because we have guns...
As an ex-Navy Gunner's mate, and 35 year old Georgia redneck who got his first .22 rifle at age 8, let me offer a couple of suggestions.
I live out in the country. Whenever I have to go "investigate" noises, I take along my trusty 12 ga. pump, that holds 8 shells. The first 2 are non-lethal "Rocksalt" loads.
As a young un, I was once on the recieving end of a rock salt load, at a considerable distance. It doesn't feel good at all.
If 2 rocksalt loads aren't enough to dispell any intruder, then I feel I am in fear for my life, and perfectly within my legal right to use the remaining 6 loads of 00 buckshot to render said intruder into bloody pieces. But that is Georgia law.
As you posted, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. However, I highly recommend you take it upon yourself to research your state laws regarding self defense, and not rely upon legal advice given by a local dispatcher.
Try a google search on California Codes.
Kermit
I dealt with my share of Northern California dispatchers (early '90's; worked for a large computer company that was going after the dispatch systems market), and let me tell ya.........they don't tend to be "brain surgeons", if you get my drift.
NEVER ask a dispatcher for such advice (except maybe....maybe.........first aid advice). Just report the incident, make sure they have your address / location (if you're calling from home, they already have your address; it's automatically loaded onto their screen from phone company records), and then hang up.
Given such a situation, you're damned right you pull your piece.
Is this what they do with 'buy-back' guns? Use them as 'planted guns'?
My experience is that cops will rarely give you license to do anything, else you could come back and claim "but they told me it was okay". Perhaps the operator was trying to telegraph that by the recording comment (but then maybe not!).
Of course if you follow the law that doesn't mean that a whacko DA won't prosecute but at least here in Texas prosecutions are rare and convictions are even more so.
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