[Rum Tum Tugger]

The author of this article proves that one does not have to be a non-Catholic to be anti-Catholic.

If you find yourself agreeing with this article as you read it, you have no idea what the Catholic Church is all about -- just like the author.

[SteamshipTime]

The author asserts that neither Jesus nor the apostle Paul considered celibacy to be a requisite for discipleship, and until Gregory VII, after the Church had already existed with married priests for over 1,000 years, no one else did either. Thus, celibacy appears to be a purely human gloss on St. Paul's teachings that can be rescinded for any rational reason. The debate then shifts to the purely human realm of whether there are valid reasons to retain celibacy or not. You insist that merely by provoking this rational debate, the author is anti-Catholic. I don't see how that follows from this article.

[poetknowit]

Sounds like ENRON II: Destruction by self.

[fporretto]

Actually, in its historical citations, the article is right on target.

The Church maintained much temporal power through the early Middle Ages, including the power to tax and a system of courts with as much power of life and death as any court in history. As a secular nobility arose in Europe following the collapse of the Roman Empire, clashes occurred between these two networks of temporal power. Those clashes were lessened most effectively by the renunciation, by the holders of benefices and bishoprics, of the privilege of engendering families that could inherit their positions and accumulations. Apparently the secular nobles felt that clerics who had no dynastic aspirations could be trusted better to wield the temporal powers they claimed. Over time, this became uniform Church policy. But as late as the 5th Century, it was noncontroversial for priests to marry and beget.

Christ never said anything about celibacy as a requirement for the priesthood. But then, He never spoke of a priesthood in the first place. It's the way the Church chose to organize itself; its celibacy requirement is a personnel policy, rather than an absolute graven into stone like the Ten Commandments. As an example, there are a handful of married Catholic priests even today. They were ordained Catholic, left the Church for an Anglican or Episcopalian ministry, and were then "recruited back" into the Roman order, and allowed to keep their wives and families. Therefore, even the Holy See does not regard priestly celibacy as a Divine requirement. Whether it's the policy of the Church is, of course, solely for the Holy See to determine.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

[Brian Kopp DPM]

CATHOLIC WATCHDOG GROUP CALLS ON U.S. CARDINALS TO AFFIRM CHURCH TEACHING WHILE IN ROME

Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. | April 17, 2002 | Stephen G. Brady

Posted on 4/17/02 5:17 PM Eastern by Dr. Brian Kopp

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 1 PM EDT, April 17, 2002

CATHOLIC WATCHDOG GROUP CALLS ON U.S. CARDINALS TO AFFIRM CHURCH TEACHING WHILE IN ROME

An international group of faithful Roman Catholics has contacted Vatican prelates and all active U.S. cardinals and asked them to publicly affirm the Church's 1961 pronouncement against admitting homosexuals or pedophiles to the priesthood.

Stephen G. Brady, the president of Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. (RCF) issued a statement on Wednesday that was directed to 8 active U.S. cardinals as well as a number of additional American and Vatican prelates. The American cardinals include Roger Mahony of Los Angeles, Francis George of Chicago, Theodore McCarrick of Washington, D.C., William Keeler of Baltimore, Anthony Bevilacqua of Philadelphia, Edward Egan of New York City, Adam Maida of Detroit, and the currently embattled Bernard Law of Boston. They will be traveling to Rome next week with National Conference of Catholic Bishops president Bishop Wilton Gregory and others at the summons of the Holy Father. They will be participating in closed-door meetings with Vatican representatives to address the scandal and damage the Church in America is undergoing due to an increasing number of sexual abuse cases coming to light. A number of prelates have been accused of protecting abusive priests and moving them to other areas, where they have repeated their predatory acts with new victims. An overwhelming number of offenses have involved homosexual acts.

"As a measure of their sincerity in addressing this horrible crisis inflicting so much damage on the souls of the innocent," Brady charged, "we challenge each and every one of these princes of the Church to sign a statement agreeing they will follow the direction of a letter issued by the Sacred Congregation for Religious in Rome." Brady is asking each prelate to affirm the following declaration: "I, ________ Cardinal ________, hereby agree to follow the direction of the letter issued by the Sacred Congregation for Religious in Rome in 1961, which states: 'Those affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty should be excluded from religious vows and ordination'". The Church directive has never been rescinded and is still officially in force.

"If a cardinal is not willing to sign this document," Brady stated, "then there is no point in his traveling to Rome. Moreover, if he travels to Rome and doesn't sign it, I wish he'd do us a favor and just stay there."

Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. (RCF) is a not-for-profit lay organization, with many religious members, dedicated to promoting orthodox Catholic teaching and fighting heterodoxy and corruption within the Catholic hierarchy.

ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITHFUL, INC.
P.O. Box 109
Petersburg, IL 62675
Phone 217-632-5920
Fax 217-632-7054
Web www.rcf.org

Press Release

Contact: Stephen G. Brady
Phone: (217) 632-5920

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[ Report Abuse | Bookmark Discussion ]

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From NRO Online The Corner:

BEST NEWS I'VE HEARD ALL DAY: [Rod Dreher] Michael Rose, author of Goodbye, Good Men, the blockbuster expose of homosexuality and heresy in American seminaries, e-mails to say he just filled an order from a Polish monsignor in the Vatican, who ordered four copies and promised to do his best to get a copy into the Holy Father's hands before the pontiff meets next week with the American cardinals. You go, Monsignor! If John Paul reads only chapter four, "The Gay Subculture," he will meet the cardinals with fire blazing in his eyes. In other good news, Regnery Publishing has bought rights to Goodbye, Good Men, which is now out only in paperback, and will be rushing a hardcover edition into stores next month. Regnery's involvement means this extremely important book will get huge distribution and exposure. Posted 1:50 PM | [Link]

1 posted on 4/17/02 5:17 PM Eastern by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

[Rum Tum Tugger]

Great news.

[Malcolm]

I have enough of an "idea" to stay away from it. Not being a Catholic doesn't mean being an anti-Christian.....

[Alberta's Child]

There’s no evidence Jesus intended Peter to be the first ruler of an absolute monarchy.

To paraphrase Jesus Christ:

"I declare, Simon, that you are the Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, and it will last until the end of time."

If that isn't the establishment of an absolute, monarchical form of church "government," then I don't know what it is. In specifically elevating ONE of his closest disciples (and not his "favorite" one in a personal sense) above the other twelve, Jesus established a monarchy, not a senate.

[beckett]

Nice column with a lot of hard truths in it. My conservative disposition, anathema to a writer for the National Catholic Reporter, can no longer excuse these 11th century conceits. Enough is enough.

[Mike Fieschko]

When Paul dealt with qualifications for bishops, elders and deacons, his restriction was only that they be “the husband of one wife.” By the third century, bishops were being denied the right to a second marriage.

He's got the century correct, but not the content, assuming that he's referring to the criticism of Pope Callistus by Hippolytus of Rome.

Hippolytus had many criticisms of that pope, and one of them was that the pope was allowing priests to marry.

The problem for Christianity was that it started to become financially prosperous.

In the third century ??? !!!! Bwwaahh --- Hippolytus died in 235 (or thereabouts) three score and ten BEFORE the persecution of Diocletian.

In the 11th century, five popes in a row said: “Enough already.” Then came tough Gregory VII.

Why go all the way to the 11th century without mentioning Pope st Leo the Great, who in 458 or 459, wrote to Bishop Rusticus of Narbonne (458/9):

"The law of continence is the same for the ministers of the altar, for the bishops and for the priests; when they were (still) lay people or lectors, they could freely take a wife and beget children. But once they have reached the ranks mentioned above, what had been permitted is no longer so."

I guess that the Church was so overloaded with riches after the Barbarian Invasions, that they decided to prohibit clerical marriage.

[Eva]

Interesting that you would post this today. I had a long chat with a nun (while waiting for my husband's open heart surgery to be completed) about the Catholic church and the gay problem. She actually brought up the subject. Anyway, I asked her why the gay priests were having such a tough time keeping their celibacy vows. She said that there is only one reason, they don't pray any more. She said that the priests have become more businessmen than clergy men and that they no longer pray to God for guidance. She told me lots of stories to back up her premise. I basicly have to agree with her.

[Mike Fieschko]

Not only were priests and bishops becoming wealthier, they were becoming worldier. Many were married, others just had “open marriages” -- concubines. Worse than that -- in the church’s eyes -- the priests and bishops begetting sons regarded the endowments being made to the church as personal property. So the same rollicking clerics were setting themselves up as landed gentry and passing the fortunes along to their primogenitor sons and heirs.

Which passing on of property, the nepotism of inherited benefices and church ministries, and the secular alliances (often military) between the nobility and the bishops, would only be valid or effective if married.

The early, reforming religious orders, Franciscans and Dominicans, were scandalized by the licentious priests. And that’s the point -- it was the concubinage scandal and money, not the marriage that was at issue.

They didn't have a jot or tittle to say about the evils attendant on a secular-religious alliance? Go back to your books.

[Mike Fieschko]

Worse than that -- in the church’s eyes -- the priests and bishops begetting sons regarded the endowments being made to the church as personal property.

When these grants of land were being made, they weren't grants in fee, they carried feudal obligations, including the obligation to supply one's secular lord with knights. The vassals couldn't just substitute another in their place, the lord had to consent.

It took centuries for the Church to rid Herself of these obligations, and if She had to battle the landed priestly families at the same time as She battled the nobility, my guess is that it would have taken a lot longer.

[uncbob]

If you find yourself agreeing with this article as you read it, you have no idea what the Catholic Church is all about -- just like the author.

Pretty Carte Blanche or as the author world say All Powerful Statement.
You haven't refuted any of his logic

[a history buff]

Many priests (privately) find the ill-informed laity who insist on "truths" the priests know not to be true to be one of the biggest dangers to the church. The avowed enemies are much easier to handle.

[Aliska]

The article must have been ghost written by Dave Hunt. ;-).

[SoothingDave]

Tugger, you're not imagining things. This should serve as a warning to any serious Catholic who still reads this rag of a "Catholic" newspaper.

Indulgences were and are guarantees signed and sealed by folks in no position to deliver on the promise. Indulgences were sold by those who had invented the idea of purgatory in the first place (there is no biblical basis for purgatory).

This guy here doubts two elements of the Catholic faith, and broadcasts this to his allegedly Catholic audience. He not only denies Purgatory, he also denies that the Church's Magisterium was given the power to bind and loose.

In short, this man is not a Catholic.

SD

[LadyDoc]

The NCREporter is the catholic equivalent of the National Enquirer. Except the National Enquirer has to check it's facts first.

Celibacy in those who seek holiness is not limited to Catholics. The tradition is ancient in the Eastern church, where married men can become priests but priests cannot marry, and where bishops come from the unmarried clergy.

Hindu holy men do not marry, nor do most Buddist monks, for example. Gandhi, for example, was married but became celibate later in his life when he decided to become a holy man. Indeed, one legal reason for divorce in India is if one's husband leaves to become a holy man.

Many "mystery" cults that predate Christianity encouraged celibacy (mainly in the East.).

Some of this is due to the "gnostic" influence, which feels that bodily functions including sex, are evil, and only the spirit is good. Christianity rejected that idea, but some influence remained. And, of course, what Paul said stays true today: That a married man or woman has to use much of their time pleasing the spouse, but an unmarried person can do the Lord's work full time.

[heyheyhey]

The author of this article proves that one does not have to be a non-Catholic to be anti-Catholic.

But the whole NCR mob IS in fact non-Catholic, and yes, very much anti-Catholic.
It's worth repeating what I wrote the other time,

There is nothing "Catholic" about the NCR. Right under their big title they stick a little "Independent Weekly."
NCR has a history of being adverse to the Church authority and teachings. Every new pronouncement from the Vatican is instantly attacked and ridiculed by the NCR mob. They are promoters of homosexual clergy, married clergy, priestesses, and of anything contrary to the Catholic doctrine.

[BlessedBeGod]

Free Republic Prayers for Priests

[history_matters]

This is the sort of piece that any CINO would love or any Catholic deeply infected by the spirit of Schillebeecx, Kung and lesser antiluminaries like Rosemary Radford Ruether and Mary Daly.

We can always depend on the AmChurch and NCR to pick up where the anti-Catholics bigots leave off. I take this time to thank God for all who have worked to save the Church over the last years of struggle - God bless Fr. Joseph Fessio, SJ, Mother Angelica, Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz, Archbishop Chaput, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, Fr. Andrew Apostoli, CFR, Johnette Benkovic, Fr. Ed Sylvia, the staff of Catholic Answers, Bud Macfarlane, Jr., Michael O'Brien, and ...