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Debate on concealed weapons revealing
Rocky Mountain News ^ | 23 Mar 02 | Mike Littwin

Posted on 03/24/2002 9:37:02 AM PST by real saxophonist

Littwin: Debate on concealed weapons revealing

March 23, 2002

I've got a little confession to make. In my column Thursday on the concealed-weapons bill, I left out maybe the most important point.

Which is this: You can safely bet that whenever the bill becomes law, you won't be able to tell the difference. It won't set off a crime wave. It won't make the streets any safer, either. But you already knew that.

To begin with, not that many people will even sign up for a permit. Most people don't want to carry a concealed weapon, if only because of the unsightly bulge.

And even those who do get a permit are unlikely to ever use a gun in anger. As one of my faithful correspondents noted, he carries a gun and has killed fewer people with gunfire than Ted Kennedy did with his car. That's the kind of e-mail I get.

What is it about guns that tends to make people go slightly nuts?

It's a simple proposition really. You either believe, as I do, that fewer guns make us safer or, as Charlton Heston does, that more guns make us safer.

There are competing studies. And there's also, say, the well-armed citizenry of Afghanistan.

I've done my own research, by living most of my life in cities where people in great numbers use guns to kill other people in great numbers. And, like most sane people, I'd just as soon stay out of the crossfire.

Let's face it, a concealed-weapons law implicitly says you should step in during that 7-Eleven holdup -- how often have you been embarrassed to be the only guy in the cash-and-carry store not carrying? -- and introduce your pals Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson to the conversation. What it says is the cops can't protect us in this violent society, so we need to be prepared to meet violence with some of our own.

The truth is, the argument is less about guns and about violence and about self-protection than it is about philosophy. The political divide is fairly obvious. It's the cultural divide that is even deeper. Your take on the Second Amendment -- by the way, check your history; even the founders couldn't agree on what the founders meant -- will tell you everything.

So, if the two sides barely speak the same language, why am I writing about guns again?

Because a little boy from Arvada, 3 years old, is in the hospital in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head after handling a gun. And, worse, it's thought he was shot when trying to give the gun to his 7-year-old brother to put away. Words do not suffice.

And because in the same legislative session that seems ready to pass the concealed-weapons bill into law, the legislators also rejected a bill that would have required guns to be stored safely in the home.

I talked to Rep. Alice Borodkin, a Denver Democrat who sponsored the bill. She was heartbroken. The bill fell to arguments that a gun storage law doesn't let a homeowner get to his gun quickly enough in a robbery situation. It fell, too, because many believe any gun-limiting law is a bad law.

I can give you numbers from studies I've read. In 1997, 630 children under the age of 15 died from gunshot wounds in America. Nine times as many children die from unintentional gun-related incidents in the United States than in 25 other industrial nations combined.

The NRA likes to point out that gun-related accidents with children are falling -- by as much as 23 percent in one year. Which is fine, except that according to a report cited by the American Medical Association, in the first 12 states to adopt safe-storage laws the rate fell by 41 percent.

Both sides have numbers. The NRA will point out, for example, that more kids die from poison or falls or choking than from guns. But I still don't get the point.

Even the NRA advocates safe storage of guns -- just not mandated safe storage.

Borodkin said her bill was not aimed at gun-owners, but at parents who would be held liable if they left loaded guns where kids could get to them. There were exceptions in the bill for hunting and target shooting and self-defense.

"That's a quadruple tragedy," Borodkin said of the Arvada shooting. "For the kid who was shot. For the brother who shot him. For the parents who have to live with this."

Borodkin admitted that she couldn't be sure if her bill would have made the difference in this case.

"But," she said, "it's a statement."

Just as the concealed-weapons bill is a statement.

If you had to choose -- and, actually, there's no reason you can't choose both -- which statement would you rather make?

Mike Littwin's column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Call him at (303) 892-5428 or e-mail him at littwinm@rockymountainnews.com.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: banglist; stillanidiot
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1 posted on 03/24/2002 9:37:03 AM PST by real saxophonist
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To: real saxophonist
It looks like the concealed-weapons guys are serious
2 posted on 03/24/2002 9:38:06 AM PST by real saxophonist
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To: real saxophonist
Wow, this guy's an idiot, and dangerous to boot. Perhaps columnists should be licensed, as spreading misinformation via newsletter is at least as dangerous to society at large as citizens owning weapons...
3 posted on 03/24/2002 9:43:38 AM PST by motzman
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To: real saxophonist
There are competing studies. And there's also, say, the well-armed citizenry of Afghanistan.

Or even the well-armed citizenry of Switzerland. But he won't mention that.

4 posted on 03/24/2002 9:49:03 AM PST by ikka
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To: real saxophonist
"In 1997, 630 children under the age of 15 died from gunshot wounds in America." (Rocky Mountain News)

Meaning - as undisputable math - that far fewer than one in three U.S. counties had even one under-driving-age kid die from gunfire that year!

Bring the math up in the gun debate. Bring up the fact that "child gun death" is undisputably statistically an aberration - not a norm - in America! And drive the lesson home by asking ditzbrain sucker mom arguing otherwise when was the last time any kid on her street was shot.

Scandals of antigun politicians and activists - coast to coast

5 posted on 03/24/2002 9:49:26 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: real saxophonist;*bang_list
Thanks for posting this.

Best regards,

6 posted on 03/24/2002 9:49:57 AM PST by Copernicus
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To: real saxophonist
by living most of my life in cities where people in great numbers use guns to kill other people in great numbers.

Vast majority are criminals killing criminals and of a CERTAIN RACIAL makeup. Course you can't say this
7 posted on 03/24/2002 10:02:44 AM PST by uncbob
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To: real saxophonist
Borodkin admitted that she couldn't be sure if her bill would have made the difference in this case. "But," she said, "it's a statement."

What's wrong with you Freepers? It's a statement. Don't you know that that is sufficient justification for any law?

8 posted on 03/24/2002 10:06:56 AM PST by Eugene Tackleberry
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To: real saxophonist
From the article: "Both sides have numbers. The NRA will point out, for example, that more kids die from poison or falls or choking than from guns. But I still don't get the point."

He doesn't get the point that he is focussed on my right to keep and bear arms instead of licensing ladders, household chemicals, and water buckets. There should be licensing, background checks, and lengthy waiting periods mandated for all who would write such drivel.

9 posted on 03/24/2002 10:09:04 AM PST by William Tell
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To: real saxophonist
Leftists are to American civil rights
as the A.I.D.S. virus is to health!

10 posted on 03/24/2002 10:15:25 AM PST by Standing Wolf
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To: real saxophonist
It's a simple proposition really. You either believe, as I do, that fewer guns make us safer or, as Charlton Heston does, that more guns make us safer.

Actually, it's whether you believe it is your right to protect yourself using the best tools available regardless of what someone else thinks will benefit society.

11 posted on 03/24/2002 10:18:17 AM PST by Dan Cooper
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To: real saxophonist
It won't make the streets any safer, either. But you already knew that. Perhaps, but it will make ME safer, and endanger the life a scumbag mugger.
12 posted on 03/24/2002 10:21:16 AM PST by Puppage
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: D Joyce
You called?
14 posted on 03/24/2002 10:25:29 AM PST by Interesting Times
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To: Interesting Times;D Joyce
BWAHAHAHAHA!
15 posted on 03/24/2002 10:30:02 AM PST by motzman
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To: Standing Wolf
"In 1997, 630 children under the age of 15 died from gunshot wounds in America." (Rocky Mountain News)"

And how many of those "children" were in gangs? Love how they use these BS numbers without giving any details. If that's the total number of gunshot related deaths in America then you better believe that a MINISCULE minority of that number are like the example this moron sites in his article (small child accidentally shooting himself). Yet they hold out that example as if all those 630 of those deaths were children accidentally shooting themselves.

So no 15 year olds gangbangers were shot to death that year? No kids were murdered that year with guns? Riigghhtt.
16 posted on 03/24/2002 10:41:59 AM PST by Green Knight
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To: real saxophonist
Borodkin admitted that she couldn't be sure if her bill would have made the difference in this case.

"But," she said, "it's a statement."

Oh, it's a statement of your superior moral concern, Rep. Borodkin? How sweet!
But maybe you could do that with greeting card from Hallmark, and let society as a whole protect itself according to its judgement of the various risks. Some of us might want criminals to fear the possibility that we might be armed . . .

17 posted on 03/24/2002 10:44:08 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: real saxophonist
I want to see a study or statistics that looks at gun deaths both adult and child, on a county by county basis. Then I want to see how those counties voted or what their political makeup is.

I want to see the study that supports my preconceived opinion. That you are far far more likely to die by gunshot in a democratic or liberal county than a conservative county. I believe that 80 to 90% of gun violence occurs in liberal strongholds. The study should rule out all accidental hunting deaths.

19 posted on 03/24/2002 11:02:16 AM PST by antaresequity
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To: real saxophonist
Because a little boy from Arvada, 3 years old, is in the hospital in critical condition...And there's a little girl in Aurora, CO who died from drinking Drano. And 3,000 dead folks from drowning in swimming pools, and 40,000 dead motorists on the nation's highways. We should never walk outside either because people who are struck by lightning. The Afghans have it right, live in a friggin cave... but with no firearms.

Nitwitt is a dope!

20 posted on 03/24/2002 11:22:14 AM PST by BulletBrasDotNet
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