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Should government employees be exempt from being fired?
18 March 2002 | Self

Posted on 03/18/2002 2:15:15 PM PST by Howie66

Should we (the TAXPAYING Public) stand by as our government employees are allowed to foul up by the numbers and never be held accountable?

In the most recent example of government employees ineptitude, 2 of the now deceased 9/11 hijackers were awarded (posthumously) student visas by our wonderful and "dedicated" INS. An INS employees was dispatched (with a prepared subpeona) to the Florida flight school to retrieve the documents. The lastest news out of Washington is that some INS employees are going to be reassigned rather than fired for this SNAFU.

My question is simple. Why the devil are government employees EXEMPT from being fired when their job performance (or lack thereof) would merit termination in any other private sector job? Furthermore, just why are we TAXPAYERS expected to continue to pay salaries (with some very good health and retirement benefits) to people that seem to think that all that is required of them is to show up at the office on payday?

How much more of this garbage are we going to tolerate?


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: inept; lackadasical; unaccountable; unionized
I strongly suggest that every one of us contact our members of Congress and our Senators and let them know, in no uncertain terms that this kind of performance is no longer acceptable.

Thanks to Congress, our airport "security" is going to be handled by the same kind of inept, unaccountable, malingering dimwit that approved the visa extensions to 2 terrorists. This has to be brought to a sreaming halt.

LET'S ROLL!!!!!

1 posted on 03/18/2002 2:15:15 PM PST by Howie66
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To: Howie66
Should we (the TAXPAYING Public) stand by as our government employees are allowed to foul up by the numbers and never be held accountable?

I don't think it's fair at all for rank-and-file government employees to keep their jobs when they screw up. Why should management be the only ones who get promoted for screwing up?

2 posted on 03/18/2002 2:22:33 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: Howie66
66...

There are two classes of government workers, the worker bees and then there are the drones. In private industry the workers are 90 per cent and the drones or management are ten per pent. In government service, the workers are about 50 to 60 per cent with the rest being drones or so called management or non producers.

Most of the worker bees, keep their heads down, do their work, and retire asap. The drones hang in there until they die or are pushed out. Yes I was a worker bee, we did an honest days work for our pay like most people. The massive drone section is like a huge cancer, it never stops growing.

3 posted on 03/18/2002 2:36:18 PM PST by cynicom
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To: Howie66
Is it any different for any union employee regardless of the employer?
4 posted on 03/18/2002 2:55:43 PM PST by balrog666
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To: Howie66
As a public servant myself, I am in total agreement that should a government worker fail to properly perform their duties, or are rude, abbrasive, etc., then they should be terminated just as those in the private sector are held to. I also will recognize that in the public sector, with union backing (which is the key) it is almost impossible to fire that type of employee. I believe that public employees must adhere to a code of conduct, ortherwise, find new employment.

TheBlueMax

5 posted on 03/18/2002 2:58:25 PM PST by TheBlueMax
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To: Howie66
Short answer: yes. Burning is a horrible way to die.
6 posted on 03/18/2002 3:03:24 PM PST by Tauzero
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To: Howie66
Government, esp. Federal Government, employees are charter members of the new Loafing Class.

I hang out with a couple of drones. Bums, the both of them. If either of them had to do a real days work, they'd go into immeadiate cardiac arrest.

Besides their over inflated paychecks for doing practically no work, they get every "holiday" off imaginable, a gold plated medical package, and COMPLETE job security.

And, oh yeah, they both started before 1984 so they can "retire" at 55 with a 75% pension INDEXED FOR INFLATION!!!!

Think about that the next time you're breaking your ass at a real job in the real world, where, like, if you don't work, you don't, ya know, eat.

And if your white...and male...and unconnected...don't even THINK about applying.

Now, back to the salt mines...there's 2.2 million non-postal federal employess and a few million more civilian retirees to coddle...

7 posted on 03/18/2002 3:10:47 PM PST by tbg681
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To: Howie66
Of course they should be exempted from being fired!!!

Aren't they already exempt from working???

8 posted on 03/18/2002 3:16:09 PM PST by ninonitti
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To: Howie66
While I agree that government workers should be held responsible for their actions, and fired when they fail to do their jobs, you should perhaps get your facts straight.

Two2 of the now deceased 9/11 hijackers were awarded (posthumously) student visas by our wonderful and "dedicated" INS.

They were NOT awarded student visas posthumously. These two were awarded their student visas by the INS in July and August 2001 - one and two months before the attacks. The "visas" in question were not visas at all but they were INS notification to the flight school that these two had been awarded their student visas and it was OK for the school to enroll them.

If we are going to complain - and God knows there is reason enough to complain - we should make sure that we have our facts straight.

9 posted on 03/18/2002 3:25:46 PM PST by jackbill
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To: Howie66
Should government employees be exempt from being fired?

Only if they're FEDERAL Employees. They're way too smart to be fired. Actually, if we put more people on the Federal payroll, they'll all be smarter.

10 posted on 03/18/2002 3:34:05 PM PST by lepton
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To: ninonitti
They are exempt from both working and being fired for any offense. Today I waited in a line 30 people long for 1/2 hour while two postal workers joked around and visited with a pair of females buying stamps. Their time, you see, is much more important than ours and they have their retirement and medical care assured. They can be nasty and nothing happens. In the business world, those that don't perform are toast. The drones in government eat the toast with cavair we buy for them.
11 posted on 03/18/2002 3:35:39 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: Howie66
I think Congress should exercise its impeachment power *much* more frequently. One of the historical reasons for impeachment was so Parliament could remove the King's favorites. We're in a similar situation today: None of the Waco criminals, for example, not a single one, has ever been prosecuted by the feds, and is unlikely to be. IMO, Congress should put the entire chain of command, from x42 and the butcher herself all the way down to the dishonest people who 'lost' the front door on trial. Upon conviction they would lose any chance of future Fed employment, and also lose their pensions.
12 posted on 03/18/2002 3:36:10 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American
Another thought: it was largely due to FDR's unwillingness to fire no-longer-needed T-men that we have the marijuana laws. Let's not repeat this error.
13 posted on 03/18/2002 3:38:14 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: cynicom
Don't misunderstand my primary focus. I had worked for 2 seperate government agencies in the past, so I am well aware of the fact that there are two varities of government employee. I left government employ after deciding that I could not put up with the mindset that dictated that one was NOT a "team player" if one showed any initiative at all to getting the job done in a manner that was cost effective, timely and efficient. I have NO regrets in my decision.

My point is that there is NO justification whatsoever for an employer to keep an unproductive, inept, lazy, malingering individual on the payroll for any reason. I also see no justification for any employee at any level of GOVERNMENT to be a UNION member. None!

All that I am asking is for people that are sick and tired of supporting dead wood employees, just contact your members of Congress and the Senate and let them know that they must act to put an end to the practice of not firing those that deserve to be fired.

As this latest fiasco has shown, our national security depends on those that are hardworking, dedicated and responsible. The rest can take a hike.

14 posted on 03/18/2002 3:45:59 PM PST by Howie66
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To: Howie66
Hey, I want a government job.

I haven't been gainfully employeed for over one year, yet I refuse to draw unemployment. I have not had an employer sponsered 401k or medical/dental plan for over 6 years and I'm danged near 50 years old. Where the heck do I sign up?

15 posted on 03/18/2002 4:01:53 PM PST by alaskanfan
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To: Howie66
It's not true Federal employees are exempt from being fired.

However, firing a lousy employee who doesn't want to leave can be the biggest, most time consuming hassle imaginable for the federal manager - fraught with the danger of sexual harrassment claims, racial lawsuits or harrassment charges in many cases.

Very precise rules must be followed to get rid of an employee, even the worst kind unless outright criminality can be proven immediately in court. Gross incompetence will be excused and the employee will be off the hook if he/she isn't 'properly' warned or counseled or if he subsequently meets the obligatory work-rehabilitation program - a process which often lasts many months. Of course, if all the required "I's" and "T's" for employee protection and retraining are not dotted and crossed, the offender will win and keep his/her job anyway or maybe just get a minor administrative slap on the wrist or transfer to a more 'suitable' work environment.

For many managers of such incompetent miscreants, the entire process is so time consuming and fraught with personal/professional liability, the easiest course is often just to get your trouble transferred to some other poor schmuck and hope he/she doesn't do as much damage there.

That's the way it is. Thank the federal labor unions and the federal employment laws if you don't like it.

16 posted on 03/18/2002 4:11:47 PM PST by Gritty
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To: Howie66
66...

I did 22 years with the FAA, developed bleeding ulcers, could not pass the required flight physical, they were in the process of "seperating" me from service, so I took a medical and got out. So people can be seperated, it is done now and again.

Unions??? I dislike them as much as anyone but we were forced into one for self preservation. For instance we worked a straight eight hours. No schedualed lunch break. You ate as your worked or if too busy, you did not eat and took your lunch home, this happened many times. We sometimes were forced to work ten days in a row with no days off. How? Five last days of one week and first five days of the next week, no overtime, nothing. Also once every two months you were on call for a week to fill in as needed, you had to be available. I would disagree that there is never a need for a union.

17 posted on 03/18/2002 5:03:33 PM PST by cynicom
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